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rileydog22 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2005
Location: New Jersey
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Points: 8844
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 Topic: Tibet, China and the Olympics
Posted: August 18 2008 at 00:38 |
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What really pisses me off is that they barred Iraq from competing. Sure, the country is guilty of heinous crimes (as are most countries in the world), but last time I checked those athletes that spent most of their lives preparing to compete in the Olympic games weren't involved. I don't see how any reasonable person could bar them from the games just because they happen to live in Iraq.
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
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Points: 4338
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Posted: August 18 2008 at 00:22 |
 Micky wrote:
had never really thought of it.. but guess I have boycotted... haven't watched one single minute of it. Then again.. I'm more of a winter Olympics person myself.. the events are far more interesting. Baseball, football, Football... Basketball with a bunch of overpaid millionaires only there because winning was deemed more important than competing. We get those the other 10 months of the year. Didn't like that China was awarded them, and figured the only reason they were would have been massive amounts of cash being thrown around the right people.
wow... feeling cynical tonight.. anyway... no real interest at all and China should have never got the games. Apolitical or not.. this is the same country that ran it's own citizens down under tanks. No thanks.
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Up unto this particular team I would agree. But I have seen Kobe and the rest of the team in the stands rooting for the Women's BB team and both Kobe an LeBron James in the stands when Michael Phelps won his 8th gold rooting and yelling like any other fan. It was kind of inspiring and Kobe even said in an interview now I understand how a fan feels watching us. They are so jaded and sheltered that maybe this was a great experience for them. Really Mick is it their fault they are millionaires?
I like watching good competition and that is the only reason I like the games. It is drama in the moment (well in tape delayed fashion  ) but people who spend there whole lives for this moment and in some cases how they will live depending on the result is pretty heavy drama. How about a 38 year old Romanian woman wining the marathon? or a 41 year old American woman winning silver against 18 year old in swimming? or little Kenya and Jamaica taling gold in some of the most prestigious track races?
So are you really in the frame of mind to punish the athletes for the arena they have to perform in if they are to perform period? Sounds like a 70's prog band singing with a major label.
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 "What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Chris S
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Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
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Posted: August 17 2008 at 21:22 |
Garion81 wrote:
Chris Stacey wrote:
The games are almost over.................YAWN
Tibet will continue to be oppressed, so will Burma, Zimbabwe,Sudan etc.etc.
Athletes are not politicians and the world voted for China to hold these games so no use crying about it now.
What I find amazing is the majority of people I know could not give a damn about sport but these last three weeks have become experts in shotput, Canoeing, Hockey, Track events, swimming.
To quote Roger Waters, this species has amused itself to death  |
So what if people only take an interest once every 4 years? What is the harm? I admit there are many aspects of the Olympics I don't like but nothing is perfect and in the end the hard work of every athlete that gets a chance to compete doing something they love is something to celebrate. Isn't it the reason we have Progarchives? Celebrating someone's hard work and vision? Funny how many armchair "'experts" we have here as well.
Is the Olympics the forum to talk about Tibet? I think not. These are about bypassing governments and promoting good will and sharing cultures even ones we don't really agree with. Understanding is the first key to real peace.
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..." we got Pepsi in the andes, we have McDonalds in Tibet
between the tigris and euphrates we have a leisure centre now
we got all kinds of sports, we got bermuda shorts.....it's a miracle"
ps: glad you enjoy the olympics  I know in my house I am in the minority. Anyway I am off to watch the Zimbabwe cricket team....
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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micky
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
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Points: 46828
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Posted: August 17 2008 at 20:59 |
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had never really thought of it.. but guess I have boycotted... haven't watched one single minute of it. Then again.. I'm more of a winter Olympics person myself.. the events are far more interesting. Baseball, football, Sottball... Basketball with a bunch of overpaid millionaires only there because winning was deemed more important than competing. We get those the other 10 months of the year. Didn't like that China was awarded them, and figured the only reason they were would have been massive amounts of cash being thrown around the right people.
wow... feeling cynical tonight.. anyway... no real interest at all and China should have never got the games. Apolitical or not.. this is the same country that ran it's own citizens down under tanks. No thanks.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
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Posted: August 17 2008 at 20:39 |
Garion81 wrote:
Chris Stacey wrote:
The games are almost over.................YAWN
Tibet will continue to be oppressed, so will Burma, Zimbabwe,Sudan etc.etc.
Athletes are not politicians and the world voted for China to hold these games so no use crying about it now.
What I find amazing is the majority of people I know could not give a damn about sport but these last three weeks have become experts in shotput, Canoeing, Hockey, Track events, swimming.
To quote Roger Waters, this species has amused itself to death |
So what if people only take an interest once every 4 years? What is the harm? I admit there are many aspects of the Olympics I don't like but nothing is perfect and in the end the hard work of every athlete that gets a chance to compete doing something they love is something to celebrate. Isn't it the reason we have Progarchives? Celebrating someone's hard work and vision? Funny how many armchair "'experts" we have here as well.
Is the Olympics the forum to talk about Tibet? I think not. These are about bypassing governments and promoting good will and sharing cultures even ones we don't really agree with. Understanding is the first key to real peace. |
I wouldn't mind so much if the British taxpayer didn't have to provide the money for the probably craply-presented 2012 Olympics. Frankly, I'd rather spend it on something that'll benefit the community than wasting it on more fodder for appalling paper headlines.
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338
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Posted: August 17 2008 at 18:26 |
Chris Stacey wrote:
The games are almost over.................YAWN
Tibet will continue to be oppressed, so will Burma, Zimbabwe,Sudan etc.etc.
Athletes are not politicians and the world voted for China to hold these games so no use crying about it now.
What I find amazing is the majority of people I know could not give a damn about sport but these last three weeks have become experts in shotput, Canoeing, Hockey, Track events, swimming.
To quote Roger Waters, this species has amused itself to death |
So what if people only take an interest once every 4 years? What is the harm? I admit there are many aspects of the Olympics I don't like but nothing is perfect and in the end the hard work of every athlete that gets a chance to compete doing something they love is something to celebrate. Isn't it the reason we have Progarchives? Celebrating someone's hard work and vision? Funny how many armchair "'experts" we have here as well.
Is the Olympics the forum to talk about Tibet? I think not. These are about bypassing governments and promoting good will and sharing cultures even ones we don't really agree with. Understanding is the first key to real peace.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Chris S
Special Collaborator
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Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
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Posted: August 17 2008 at 16:59 |
The games are almost over.................YAWN
Tibet will continue to be oppressed, so will Burma, Zimbabwe,Sudan etc.etc.
Athletes are not politicians and the world voted for China to hold these games so no use crying about it now.
What I find amazing is the majority of people I know could not give a damn about sport but these last three weeks have become experts in shotput, Canoeing, Hockey, Track events, swimming.
To quote Roger Waters, this species has amused itself to death |
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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Philip
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: Porto, Portugal
Status: Offline
Points: 413
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Posted: August 17 2008 at 11:21 |
Last option. It is a responsibility of the other participants I think.
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Jozef
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 17 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 2204
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Posted: August 16 2008 at 23:00 |
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As much as I support the movement for Tibet's freedom, I still don't think you should mix sports and politics.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
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Points: 29625
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Posted: August 11 2008 at 19:13 |
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Games without frontiers, war without tears?
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
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Points: 8052
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Posted: August 11 2008 at 17:49 |
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All of 2, 3 and 4. I doubt it would help Tibet at all (if not perhaps make things worse). I think that giving China the Olympics was, for other reasons, a good idea, and the beginning of really engaging with the country. I also prefer sports and show taking precedence over politics where it's appropriate, rather than in the general news.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29625
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Posted: August 11 2008 at 17:39 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Shakespeare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 18 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 7744
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Posted: March 31 2008 at 18:31 |
Visitor13 wrote:
Buddhism is a religion, for reasons already stated. To illustrate the point further - in early medieval Japan there was a very strong Buddhist movement centered around the figure of a Buddhist saint called Amida. Basically some monks discovered a passage in one of the holy texts claiming that before he died, Amida said he would come back to save all beings. His followers decided that their efforts to clear their karma were useless and that their only hope was total and unquestioned belief in the saving power of Amida. Other Buddhist schools of thought were frowned upon.
Sounds somehow familiar, doesn't it?
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Going off the original topic:
Amida, or Amitabha as I know him, in the Pure Land sect of Buddhism, in countless ages past was a bodhisattva who swore never to become a Buddha. And if he did, then any man who says his name will be guaranteed eternal life. And Amida did become a Buddha, and therefore saying his name promises the sayer eternal life. That seems to be a very religious-like promise. But the reason behind this is the following philosophy: because man's karma is so bad, if you were to try to do something to earn eternal life, that would be spiritual pride and done through selfish motifs, and wouldn't affect your deliverance. You have to just take it as a gift from Amitabha and do the absurd thing of saying Amidabha's name. Merely saying it once will guarantee you eternal life. The reason: you don't need to do anything to grant yourself eternal life, to save yourself, because you are saved. As Alan Watts says: popularly, Amitabha is something else; someone else. But esoterically he is your nature, and the foundation of you. Therefore, you don't need to do anything to be that, for you are that. You don't have to do a thing to justify yourself.
The reason I don't think this is at all a religion is that the definition of a religion is a set of rules to live ones life by, and here there are no real rules here, it's merely an idea and a belief. The only rule of it is that you mustn't do a thing to justify not justifying yourself, because that returns to spiritual pride. But, again, that goes hand-in-hand with the philosophy of the whole thing.
But all that's just Pure Land Buddhism, I was actually thinking of Zen Buddhism which is nothing at all like a religion, it's just eastern psychotherapy.
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Visitor13
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Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
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Points: 4702
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Posted: March 31 2008 at 12:52 |
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Buddhism is a religion, for reasons already stated. To illustrate the point further - in early medieval Japan there was a very strong Buddhist movement centered around the figure of a Buddhist saint called Amida. Basically some monks discovered a passage in one of the holy texts claiming that before he died, Amida said he would come back to save all beings. His followers decided that their efforts to clear their karma were useless and that their only hope was total and unquestioned belief in the saving power of Amida. Other Buddhist schools of thought were frowned upon.
Sounds somehow familiar, doesn't it?
And if you want to help Tibet, Burma, Chechnya etc. send them guns and ammo.
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
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Points: 1191
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Posted: March 31 2008 at 10:34 |
Sean Trane wrote:
Shakespeare wrote:
IVNORD wrote:
As any religion, Buddhism is a well-established business. Ever wonder what the sources of income of the Dalai Lama are? There's no question it's a religion. The claim to its philosophical status is to reassure its followers of their sophistication as if they not merely follow a religion but a philosophy.
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It's not a religion. 
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I see monks, prayers, monastries, shrimnes etc....  |
... temples and idols to worship... Do you have to pay membership fees when you join a congregation? Just curious
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Shakespeare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 18 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 7744
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Posted: March 31 2008 at 10:02 |
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It's closest, in the western world, to psychotherapy.
Religion, by denotation, is a set of rules to live one's life by.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 19705
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Posted: March 31 2008 at 09:52 |
Shakespeare wrote:
IVNORD wrote:
As any religion, Buddhism is a well-established business. Ever wonder what the sources of income of the Dalai Lama are? There's no question it's a religion. The claim to its philosophical status is to reassure its followers of their sophistication as if they not merely follow a religion but a philosophy.
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It's not a religion.
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I see monks, prayers, monastries, shrimnes etc....
Could've fooled me
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Shakespeare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 18 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 7744
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Posted: March 31 2008 at 09:16 |
IVNORD wrote:
As any religion, Buddhism is a well-established business. Ever wonder what the sources of income of the Dalai Lama are? There's no question it's a religion. The claim to its philosophical status is to reassure its followers of their sophistication as if they not merely follow a religion but a philosophy.
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It's not a religion.
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: March 31 2008 at 08:54 |
Sean Trane wrote:
IVNORD wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
IVNORD wrote:
You put words into my mouth. I specifically used the word "tilt" to emphasize that I've got it. Your "Far away from me the idea of supporting China " was pretty clear. That was me who sided with you - rare occasion. Even the parallel with the Vietnamese in Cambodia was legit.
As any religion, Buddhism is a well-established business. Ever wonder what the sources of income of the Dalai Lama are? There's no question it's a religion. The claim to its philosophical status is to reassure its followers of their sophistication as if they not merely follow a religion but a philosophy.
THe entire situation in Tibet is used as a counterbalance to China - the West supports the Dalai Lama and the separatist movement, etc. but no Western power has no interest in Tibetan feudalism and standard of living. Neither do the Chinese or anybody else for this matter. Even if they brought the XX century there, the change was miniscule, nothing to celebrate. One opressor replaced the other. So the Dalai Lama might very well stay in charge, what's the difference? |
Sorry for misreading you!!
Ain't that the truth
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You're not sarcastic, aren't you? Bet you, if the Chinese REALLY open their country to free trade and begin playing by the rules with their currency by letting it float, there will be much less talk about Tibet as well as much less appearances of the Dalai Lama on TV. |
As far as I can read from your posts, we agree very much on these issues.
Of course, part of the problem is really full accessibility of the Chinese market, but we should not underestimate their resistance and xenophobia (the Hans are extremely xenophobic). Even if they do open up completely, the average Chinese will buy Chinese. |
It's just a matter of time. So far they drink Coca Cola and smoke Camel. Consumerism always wins. And the new generation is pretty much open-minded.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 19705
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Posted: March 31 2008 at 08:44 |
IVNORD wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
IVNORD wrote:
You put words into my mouth. I specifically used the word "tilt" to emphasize that I've got it. Your "Far away from me the idea of supporting China " was pretty clear. That was me who sided with you - rare occasion. Even the parallel with the Vietnamese in Cambodia was legit.
As any religion, Buddhism is a well-established business. Ever wonder what the sources of income of the Dalai Lama are? There's no question it's a religion. The claim to its philosophical status is to reassure its followers of their sophistication as if they not merely follow a religion but a philosophy.
THe entire situation in Tibet is used as a counterbalance to China - the West supports the Dalai Lama and the separatist movement, etc. but no Western power has no interest in Tibetan feudalism and standard of living. Neither do the Chinese or anybody else for this matter. Even if they brought the XX century there, the change was miniscule, nothing to celebrate. One opressor replaced the other. So the Dalai Lama might very well stay in charge, what's the difference? |
Sorry for misreading you!!
Ain't that the truth
|
You're not sarcastic, aren't you? Bet you, if the Chinese REALLY open their country to free trade and begin playing by the rules with their currency by letting it float, there will be much less talk about Tibet as well as much less appearances of the Dalai Lama on TV. |
As far as I can read from your posts, we agree very much on these issues.
Of course, part of the problem is really full accessibility of the Chinese market, but we should not underestimate their resistance and xenophobia (the Hans are extremely xenophobic). Even if they do open up completely, the average Chinese will buy Chinese.
Edited by Sean Trane - March 31 2008 at 08:44
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
|
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Tibet, China and the Olympics
