PA's Battle to Stardom C2: Opeth v. VDGG

birdwithteeth11 wrote: Avantgardehead wrote: Opeth has a good concept on paper, but the songs are more like exhibitions that are really lacking in tact and structure. Plus you can only write so many clashing blues riffs... Plus it's so one-dimensional in the emotional area. Always depressing, and/or dark. Go listen to some death metal and then tell me that. This comment is about the following: i always found that when a person do not like some of the extreme progressive or non progressive metal scene the first answer about of the defender of this great style is this: "Go listen to some "Insert subgenre here" metal and then tell me that." Sorry men but is hilarous that someone that bash and trash a extreme metal prog or not prog style, usually haven't heard enough to make arguments. Opeth is really a very good band and that's a fact. and BTW i vote to Van Der Graff

opeth.

VDGG is a much more. . . aquired taste, one im still trying to get used to. Its strange somehow to me, and i like some pretty bizzare music. i like some of it, but for the most part it fails to interest me.

opeth is fairly easy to get and easy to like IMO. not the best prog band or metal band around by any stretch but pretty damn good. i really liked blackwater park and most of ghost reveries and watershed.

HughesJB4 wrote: I'm a more modern progger

For a modern progger I'd say VdGG would be the natural choice.

I do like Opeth too.

birdwithteeth11 wrote: It is a shame you can't tell. Especially when such influences are right there in the music. I'm wondering if you honestly even payed attention to anything I said. Opinions, opinions my friend. Yes, maybe I'm not being very fair, don't know, BPark and SLife never catch me... Of course something different happens with Damnation, but this one doesn't count Out of these, I've only heard samples and myspace... I promise to give them a deeper try And if saying a band is prog or not is a matter of opinion, well then how do we even know what's prog and what isn't? Yes, it's a matter of opinion. For example, here it depends on the opinions of the collaborators of the site, or does it exists the "Method for identifying a prog rock band"?. No, it's all about the people opinions, of course there are some guides, but you know... very open and fuzzy. If it wasn't, probably the discussion for including X in the archives would be less than 1 page. Don't you think? I also appreciate the fact that you never commented on anything I said, but just continued to spout your opinion. If you want to have a debate about this, I'm more than willing to engage you, but you need to bring some cold, hard facts along with you. Otherwise I'll just drop the issue right here. No no, it's just that discussing "this band is prog and this one not", is useless, endless and bothersome, so sorry if I'm being evasive on this one. I prefer to keep out on the seats

MrEdifus wrote: AlexUC wrote: birdwithteeth11 wrote: AlexUC wrote: VDGG. Could never accept Opeth as a prog band, I still can't hear the prog influences... And I hate that cliche Death Metal grunting  I'm sorry, but I laughed at that statement. If you're trying to slyly imply that Opeth is "just another death metal band" like I've heard people do on this forum before, then that's far from the truth. I can give you three clear reason why: 1) Opeth is much, much lighter than most other death metal bands, 2) they use extended song lengths (not many death metal bands crank out 10 minute song after 10 minute song), and 3) their songwriting is much more mature and complex than most other death metal bands. Akerfeldt has also sighted progressive rock as a major influence in the music he makes, especially Camel and Porcupine Tree. If you don't like them because of the harsh vocals, that's perfectly fine, and they most certainly aren't a "progressive rock" band in the sense of 70s prog rock, but please don't go saying they aren't a prog band in any sense because that's simply not true. Again, I still can't hear the prog influences and I dislike the vocals. That's all. If you can't accept that, sorry, that's the ugliness of the diversity. Saying a band is prog or not, is just a matter of opinion, so don't come telling me what I must think If the main songwriter cited prog influences, then they're there.

Sure. It's a shame that I can't hear them, maybe I'm missing something

birdwithteeth11 wrote: AlexUC wrote: VDGG. Could never accept Opeth as a prog band, I still can't hear the prog influences... And I hate that cliche Death Metal grunting  I'm sorry, but I laughed at that statement. If you're trying to slyly imply that Opeth is "just another death metal band" like I've heard people do on this forum before, then that's far from the truth. I can give you three clear reason why: 1) Opeth is much, much lighter than most other death metal bands, 2) they use extended song lengths (not many death metal bands crank out 10 minute song after 10 minute song), and 3) their songwriting is much more mature and complex than most other death metal bands. Akerfeldt has also sighted progressive rock as a major influence in the music he makes, especially Camel and Porcupine Tree. If you don't like them because of the harsh vocals, that's perfectly fine, and they most certainly aren't a "progressive rock" band in the sense of 70s prog rock, but please don't go saying they aren't a prog band in any sense because that's simply not true.

Again, I still can't hear the prog influences and I dislike the vocals. That's all. If you can't accept that, sorry, that's the ugliness of the diversity. Saying a band is prog or not, is just a matter of opinion, so don't come telling me what I must think

LiquidEternity wrote: Why are people complaining that Van der Graaf Generator has too little guitar? How is that a requirement? They don't have a guitarist, so of course they're not going to have very much guitar. Silly people. And, truth be told, both bands, though I really enjoy them, are two of the most overrated bands on this forum and elsewhere in the prog community. And I don't see them as particularly polarizing bands between each other, either. They in the end strike me as pretty similar in terms of feel.

Hmmmm, an eclectic prog band which many people consider to be one of the defining band of 70s progressive rock (although I don't) against a band that is listed in a genre that most people on this site don't really give much attention or credit to, that is in fact spit upon fairly often except in most cases for Opeth and occasionally Meshuggah.

True, both bands do have a similar feel to the to the extent that they're very dark bands, but otherwise I don't really see how their sounds are similar. Quite honestly, VDGG has never struck me as using any metal and Opeth has never felt eclectic to me. Not quite sure how you think they have similar feels, but you're entitled to your opinion I guess.

Also since I'm thinking about it, this is taken directly from the Wikipedia page of Opeth's "Still Life" album:

The song "Benighted" is its only acoustic track, containing a jazz-influenced guitar solo. The song bears a resemblance to Camel's "Never Let Go" on their self-titled debut-album.

Hopefully that says something to some of you.

Opeth has a good concept on paper, but the songs are more like exhibitions that are really lacking in tact and structure. Plus you can only write so many clashing blues riffs...

Plus it's so one-dimensional in the emotional area. Always depressing, and/or dark.

VDGG!!!!