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Grobsch 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 25 2004
Location: Brazil
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Points: 169
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 Topic: Prog POP... Well... Crossover thread!!!
Posted: January 06 2009 at 06:18 |
Distillerie di Malto's 'Il Manuale dei Piccoli Discorsi' is one of my favourites album of the last decade... A heavy Italian Crossover Symphonic Latin album... 
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Drummerboy
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 12 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 81
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Posted: January 05 2009 at 10:20 |
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I think Asia certainly belongs in the original list.
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Mandrakeroot
Forum Senior Member
Italian Prog Specialist
Joined: March 01 2006
Location: San Foca, Friûl
Status: Offline
Points: 5851
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Posted: December 30 2008 at 08:39 |
 micky wrote:
Mandrakeroot wrote:
micky wrote:
Mandrakeroot wrote:
. In my mind. Steely Dan... Here's an example of Xover Jazz... Mike Oldfield or Alan Parsons Project / band... Here's an example of Symphonic Xover.
In conclusion I believe that Xover is more than a musical genre because for me Xover is a musical aptitude. That, moreover, is not exclusive only of Prog! |
bingo my Fruilian freund... Crossover is more a category, for those who cross the many 'established' forms of prog with popular music. Since Crossover hit the ground running.. we have not only dealt with what many see as 'english/american' pop music... but also ethnic or regional 'pop' music...like Central and South American 'pop' music. In short.. it is a place.. like all of our genres/categories are. A best fit and Xover was designed for groups like the Moodies that were prog yet had a popular music influence that was distinct and put them out of place in other existing categories here.
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So, if I understand correctly... I off the question... Even with the title of this thread! |
hahahha... if I understand YOU correctly  . You are not off question.. or thread.. you are in the ballpack. Xover is not pop prog. However.. pop prog is IN Xover... but it is not simply pop prog. We have prog mixed with indie.. alternative...tradition amer/english pop... even one Dean and I loved that was prog with Guatemalan pop music. It is pretty much the kitchen sink. Not to preach.. because I've given you the gospel so many times I have a pew named for you hahah. These are categories.. designed not for academic categorization... or for some summary statement that we (in the genre teams) know what others here do not or are frickin smarter. All we do is try to place groups that share similar sounds, influences, and histories for the forum at large.. to help people in their prog explorations.
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Hmm... Well... I think... Ok!... However... Clearly what we have argued in our response and we blow lead at points... But there is a meeting of box (a noble art... As the Prog...!)... What I was trying only to frame the question ... To ensure that the title tease the minds of those who soiled PA .. And PA's forum ...!
clear that Prog POP is a drend of Xover... But it is clear that Xover is not difficult Prog to understand (even if it is easier to other Prog forms)... I say this with the title... Since I could not write: 'The easy Prog... Crossover '. In fact there is no easy Prog. Are 3 months that I have in hand 'Gaucho' of Steely Dan... There I understood nothing yet!
I hope not to be compelled to write this yet... Not benefit for the thread!
Edited by Mandrakeroot - December 30 2008 at 08:41
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micky
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46828
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Posted: December 29 2008 at 16:26 |
Mandrakeroot wrote:
micky wrote:
Mandrakeroot wrote:
. In my mind. Steely Dan... Here's an example of Xover Jazz... Mike Oldfield or Alan Parsons Project / band... Here's an example of Symphonic Xover.
In conclusion I believe that Xover is more than a musical genre because for me Xover is a musical aptitude. That, moreover, is not exclusive only of Prog! |
bingo my Fruilian freund... Crossover is more a category, for those who cross the many 'established' forms of prog with popular music. Since Crossover hit the ground running.. we have not only dealt with what many see as 'english/american' pop music... but also ethnic or regional 'pop' music...like Central and South American 'pop' music. In short.. it is a place.. like all of our genres/categories are. A best fit and Xover was designed for groups like the Moodies that were prog yet had a popular music influence that was distinct and put them out of place in other existing categories here.
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So, if I understand correctly... I off the question... Even with the title of this thread! |
hahahha... if I understand YOU correctly . You are not off question.. or thread.. you are in the ballpack. Xover is not pop prog. However.. pop prog is IN Xover... but it is not simply pop prog. We have prog mixed with indie.. alternative...tradition amer/english pop... even one Dean and I loved that was prog with Guatemalan pop music. It is pretty much the kitchen sink. Not to preach.. because I've given you the gospel so many times I have a pew named for you hahah. These are categories.. designed not for academic categorization... or for some summary statement that we (in the genre teams) know what others here do not or are frickin smarter. All we do is try to place groups that share similar sounds, influences, and histories for the forum at large.. to help people in their prog explorations.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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theteaclub_dan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 05 2008
Location: Barrington NJ
Status: Offline
Points: 166
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Posted: December 29 2008 at 16:14 |
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Mandrakeroot
Forum Senior Member
Italian Prog Specialist
Joined: March 01 2006
Location: San Foca, Friûl
Status: Offline
Points: 5851
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Posted: December 29 2008 at 03:24 |
micky wrote:
Mandrakeroot wrote:
. In my mind. Steely Dan... Here's an example of Xover Jazz... Mike Oldfield or Alan Parsons Project / band... Here's an example of Symphonic Xover.
In conclusion I believe that Xover is more than a musical genre because for me Xover is a musical aptitude. That, moreover, is not exclusive only of Prog! |
bingo my Fruilian freund... Crossover is more a category, for those who cross the many 'established' forms of prog with popular music. Since Crossover hit the ground running.. we have not only dealt with what many see as 'english/american' pop music... but also ethnic or regional 'pop' music...like Central and South American 'pop' music. In short.. it is a place.. like all of our genres/categories are. A best fit and Xover was designed for groups like the Moodies that were prog yet had a popular music influence that was distinct and put them out of place in other existing categories here.
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So, if I understand correctly... I off the question... Even with the title of this thread!
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tobiasfunke
Forum Newbie
Joined: December 29 2008
Location: Florida, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1
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Posted: December 29 2008 at 00:45 |
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http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=33327895
I'm not sure if these guys qualify as crossover, but even if they don't they're a fantastic pop band.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: December 27 2008 at 14:06 |
SgtPepper67 wrote:
I just found out that Argent was the band of The Zombies keyboardist. I never heard Argent, and since I like The Zombies' Odissey & Oracle a lot, I was wondering wich Argent album would you recommendto start with them.
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All Together Now
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What?
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SgtPepper67
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 17 2007
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 530
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Posted: December 27 2008 at 13:10 |
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I just found out that Argent was the band of The Zombies keyboardist. I never heard Argent, and since I like The Zombies' Odissey & Oracle a lot, I was wondering wich Argent album would you recommendto start with them.
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 In the end the love you take is equal to the love you made...
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
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Points: 46828
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Posted: December 27 2008 at 09:12 |
Mandrakeroot wrote:
. In my mind. Steely Dan... Here's an example of Xover Jazz... Mike Oldfield or Alan Parsons Project / band... Here's an example of Symphonic Xover.
In conclusion I believe that Xover is more than a musical genre because for me Xover is a musical aptitude. That, moreover, is not exclusive only of Prog! |
bingo my Fruilian freund... Crossover is more a category, for those who cross the many 'established' forms of prog with popular music. Since Crossover hit the ground running.. we have not only dealt with what many see as 'english/american' pop music... but also ethnic or regional 'pop' music...like Central and South American 'pop' music. In short.. it is a place.. like all of our genres/categories are. A best fit and Xover was designed for groups like the Moodies that were prog yet had a popular music influence that was distinct and put them out of place in other existing categories here.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
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Points: 46828
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Posted: December 27 2008 at 09:01 |
Mandrakeroot wrote:
micky wrote:
Mandrakeroot wrote:
micky wrote:
*sounds of Raff crying in background*
that was good... obviously she KNEW the group.
'makes Pooh sound like Black Sabbath' hahahhah.. it is any wonder why I love that woman.
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Uhm... Oh my God!!! For me this band is a mix of Banco (POP phase) and I Delirium with romantic approach!!!
In every case... A great band!!! |
I'm sure they are a great band Mandy.. hell .. I like it on a purely personal level. Then again.. I dig Pooh and don't have the gag reflex Raffaella does to them hahahha.
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Uhm... Alunni Del Sole= I Pooh? Oh my God!!! Alunni Del Sole are much Prog than I Pooh... Also because with Alunni Del Sole's keyboaards carpets...
Alunni Del Sole certainly are a better band to be evaluated. I have a CD of Alunni Del Sole and I have to buy their LP 'Liù' (from 1978). Then I could leave the office for a good evalutation... By Raff... Put down that knife! |
hahahha... trust me.. that knife won't get anywhere near my treasured Pooh CD's... she knows retribution would be swift and deadly. The 'bible' does have them listed Mandy.. but as I'm sure you read... mainly for one track, an extended suite off of one album. (which I would love to hear.. being a big fan of 'melodic Italian prog' We can definitely eval them but remember Pooh were added to related, as much as I love them musically, they are here for specific reasons. Mainly historical and contextual ones, we have never.. and will never flood the site with 'minor' Italian related artists. The bible is mainly historical... as you know.. we here do take some historical into account.. but the primary use of this site is musical. That site handles the historical end of RPI... we do the musical end in relation to prog as this site defines it. Cheers Mandy
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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SgtPepper67
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 17 2007
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 530
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Posted: December 27 2008 at 08:51 |
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Well, Styx are in the Prg related category in this site actually, but I think they're clearly crossover. From that list I like also Roger Water and ELO. I always though about the Moody Blues more as a proto prog act. I like Radiohead first three albums, but the rest is just noise with an annoying dying man's voice to me, actually I don't think there's much prog about that, and nothing pop either.
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In the end the love you take is equal to the love you made...
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Mandrakeroot
Forum Senior Member
Italian Prog Specialist
Joined: March 01 2006
Location: San Foca, Friûl
Status: Offline
Points: 5851
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Posted: December 27 2008 at 04:30 |
SgtPepper67 wrote:
I love Supertramp, Styx, Peter Gabriel and Alan Parsons Project. I don't know many other crossover bands though. |
In opening of this thread thread I wrote:
'Supertramp, 10CC, Alan Parsons Project/ band, Peter Gabriel, Wishbone Ash, Barclay James Harvest, The Moody Blues, Mike Oldfield, Pavlov's Dog, ELO, Daemonia, Kayak, Popol Ace/ Popol Vuh, Radiohead, Steamhammer, Steely Dan, Talk Talk, Roger Waters, Steve Howe, Keith Emerson, Box Of Crayons and Argent are the PA's crossover (ok, 10cc and Wishbone Ash are Crossover for me) bands/ artists of whom I've at least 1 CD, LP, MC or DVD.'
You have also included Styx... And it is true. They may be included in the Xover.
In any case, if you begin to deepen the historical aspect of Xover... The list that I wrote is more than good!
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: December 26 2008 at 21:22 |
King By-Tor wrote:
Crossover has been very good to us recently. I think everyone should check out the very unique bands like Godsticks and 3Rdegree as well as the more Symphonic acts like Phideaux |
Don't forget The Tea Club. 
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LinusW
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Joined: September 27 2007
Location: Sweden
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Points: 10665
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Posted: December 26 2008 at 20:11 |
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Crossover is a very vibrant zone with another sort of progression than many of us might be used to, but the clash of styles makes it even more interesting. The conflict is the essence, something I think you need to focus on in order to appreciate the bands fully.
One of my favourite subs for many reasons.
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theteaclub_dan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 05 2008
Location: Barrington NJ
Status: Offline
Points: 166
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Posted: December 26 2008 at 20:06 |
p0mt3 wrote:
I know! They are great, aren't they? I really enjoy the singer's long, drawn-out single note signing style. Very dramatic and beautiful.  |
Agreed. I think his voice suits their musical style and atmosphere perfectly, and gives this sort of slow motion feel to their choruses. And I've heard that they're really good live... I unfortunately passed up the opportunity to see them right after "Catch Without Arms" came out... 
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Queen By-Tor
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Joined: September 13 2006
Location: Xanadu
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Posted: December 26 2008 at 15:17 |
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Crossover has been very good to us recently. I think everyone should check out the very unique bands like Godsticks and 3Rdegree as well as the more Symphonic acts like Phideaux
Edited by King By-Tor - December 26 2008 at 15:18
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SgtPepper67
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 17 2007
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 530
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Posted: December 26 2008 at 15:15 |
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I love Supertramp, Styx, Peter Gabriel and Alan Parsons Project. I don't know many other crossover bands though.
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In the end the love you take is equal to the love you made...
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Mandrakeroot
Forum Senior Member
Italian Prog Specialist
Joined: March 01 2006
Location: San Foca, Friûl
Status: Offline
Points: 5851
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Posted: December 26 2008 at 04:07 |
micky wrote:
Mandrakeroot wrote:
micky wrote:
*sounds of Raff crying in background*
that was good... obviously she KNEW the group.
'makes Pooh sound like Black Sabbath' hahahhah.. it is any wonder why I love that woman.
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Uhm... Oh my God!!! For me this band is a mix of Banco (POP phase) and I Delirium with romantic approach!!!
In every case... A great band!!! |
I'm sure they are a great band Mandy.. hell .. I like it on a purely personal level. Then again.. I dig Pooh and don't have the gag reflex Raffaella does to them hahahha.
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Uhm... Alunni Del Sole= I Pooh? Oh my God!!! Alunni Del Sole are much Prog than I Pooh... Also because with Alunni Del Sole's keyboaards carpets...
Alunni Del Sole certainly are a better band to be evaluated. I have a CD of Alunni Del Sole and I have to buy their LP 'Liù' (from 1978). Then I could leave the office for a good evalutation... By Raff... Put down that knife!
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Mandrakeroot
Forum Senior Member
Italian Prog Specialist
Joined: March 01 2006
Location: San Foca, Friûl
Status: Offline
Points: 5851
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Posted: December 26 2008 at 03:57 |
micky wrote:
p0mt3 wrote:
micky wrote:
p0mt3 wrote:
I realize that Mike and Steely are considered Crossover here, but in my opinion . . .
Mike Oldfield is not Crossover. He's Eclectic. Steely Dan is not Crossover. They are Jazz-Rock.
What either of these artists are doing in Crossover I will never know.  |
Oldfield has been a topic of discussion for some time... genre placement is not perfect here. As a collab I assume you understand the nature of genre team work here. Some think eclectic.. some Crossover.. baring any kind of consensus he has stayed where he was first put during the AR split.
Steely Dan was a bit more touchy... that addition was done in conjunction between the Xover and J-R teams. It was the considered opinion of that team that while Steely Dan was J-R... thus prog... it fit more in line with what the site had in mind with Xover. ie.. the merging of prog with popular music.. or the dreaded pop music. The Xover team approved.. thus they were added there. The bio states quite clearly they are a J-R group.. however they do not exactly 'fit' what the site had in mind for J-R.. .and did for Xover. That is the ...ehhh... short story of all that.
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Oh, yes, I realize the process isn't perfect, and like I say I'm just glad those bands are on this site, regardless of where to find them. :) I was just saying that those other genres seemed to match the bands better, but I understand that it isn't always easy to determine where to put certan artists-- especially if they are truly progressive and hard to define. That's the cost of sub-categorization, I suppose, :-P. |
that is the cost.. for those who think they have the world figured out and think prog bands can be pigeonholed into nice discrete sub-genres. For everyone else though... fans of the Mahavishnu Orchestra won't have a conniption wondering why a group that did something 'Rikki don't Lose that Number' (to the uneducated a simple pop song.. to those who bother to learn and listen.. a song lifted from from jazz) is in the same sub-genre. That is the difference... some Jazz-rock here is 'in your face' so to speak... others.. are more subtle.. and since many here are locked into pre-concieved notions of groups, music, or what or should not be here.. they very often fail to make the connection. While Steely Dan is, I wil venture to say.. MORE Jazz-Rock than M.O. the expectations of the forum take precedence. A general listener to J-R will say WFF to seeing Steely Dan in J-R... no w**king off and instrumental flights of w**kery. That is NOT what jazz or jazz-rock is about. However we all serve the site. SD didn't fit the concieved notion of J-R. Being a controvsial addition as it was, that sure wasn't the group to start trying to expand people's minds hahha. However while those who peruse Xover.. will understand exactly why they fit there. Unfortunately it came to be that it had to be shown that SD FIT EXACTLY what this site determined Xover to be. That sh*t is not simple pop music.. and any who confuse it with pop.. simply aren't listening close enough.. or just won't let go of preconcieved notions of the band.. or it's music. I do get a laugh at those, like the nice knowledgeable person above... and even some collabs, saying that pop and prog can not meet... says who... and what what they say to those who might say that rock and prog can not meet. You know.. what the hell is the difference.. none.
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If I can spend 2 cents... Or even 4 cents... Even if 1 € cent (which need to print it .. 3 € cents cost!!!) here... I would say that this answer is the whole question of why I wanted to call the Xover also Prog POP.
I think a person who understands little of the music will say that King Crimson and ELP are too complicated and therefore do not understand and could be said to hate the Prog. But if this person will listen, I know... Mike Oldfield or .. Peter Gabriel... Steely Dan or Alan Parsons Project/ Band... Because they (and in general all Xover or similar bands/ artists) attempt to bring the Prog to large masses (even unconsciously...) they are seeking a more POP. From here the oxymoron Prog POP in the form of their Prog... What I think is not so much oxymoron... In my mind. Steely Dan... Here's an example of Xover Jazz... Mike Oldfield or Alan Parsons Project / band... Here's an example of Symphonic Xover.
In conclusion I believe that Xover is more than a musical genre because for me Xover is a musical aptitude. That, moreover, is not exclusive only of Prog!
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Prog POP... Well... Crossover thread!!!
