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oliverstoned 
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Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
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Points: 6308
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 Topic: Turntables
Posted: May 25 2005 at 06:38 |
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btw...funny to see how you search and eventually found a "fault" in my speech.
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oliverstoned
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Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
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Points: 6308
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Posted: May 25 2005 at 03:42 |
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You're right, that's true.
To listen to a device is the only way to judge it.
But my case is a little special cause i know a great audiophile who learns me all.
I trust him blindly cause he always proved me his
reliability.
He's in hifi from 35 years and have one of the best system on the planet.
So, he told me PT was excellent and Linn's concurrent.
I believe him.
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Tony Fisher
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 30 2005
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 967
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Posted: May 24 2005 at 15:29 |
What "info" did you get on the PT Anni to change your opinion?
Did you LISTEN to it? Cos that's the ONLY way to judge hi-fi!!!!
Tony
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oliverstoned
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Posted: May 21 2005 at 07:53 |
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"I owned a full Linn system, Oliver. I was relieved when I managed to sell it, too, because it performed way below what my father paid for it."
Sorry, i confuse with Naim
I agree this is really bad!!!
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oliverstoned
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Joined: March 26 2004
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Points: 6308
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Posted: May 21 2005 at 07:51 |
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"Er, you're having a go at the wrong person, mate! I don't like Micromega CD players AT ALL! And Shangling? Never heard one."
Sorry i confuse you with KE9 and his multiple identities.
"And the Linn Karma "excellent"? Coloured as hell!"
Completely false!!!!
That was your system which was bad!
" On the Planar 3, it didn't. This is because the Rega is somewhat coloured and not as transparent as top flight decks."
Not transparent as 5, 10 or 20X more expensive decks...
That's so obvious that you don't need to tell it.
And no, again, that's not coloured at all.
It has its limitations in bandwith, dynamic, but it's NEUTRAL.
But to judge it, or any other device btw, you have to have a full neutral, transparent and musical system.
The smallest "details" are important.
You admit you don't use good cables, you don't use separate power electric lines, good power cables, power filters, vib cancellers , so how can you judge something whith such a low level of transparency?
"I owned a full Linn system, Oliver. I was relieved when I managed to sell it, too, because it performed way below what my father paid for it."
Agree.
This is VERY expensive for what is.
You can do much better for half or third of the price.
"Firstly, you resort to insults when people disagree with you."
Don't confuse me with ke9, i've never insult anybody.
"Secondly, you can't admit you're wrong on anything"
False.
I first said PT was bad, but get info and finally admit it's good.
Just read again this thread and you'll see.
"I am beginning to question whether you've actually heard a lot of the stuff you talk about, because if you had, you wouldn't make such bombastic and misinformed comments about it."
All is said about rega p3 and Linn is because i've heard it many times,( i listen to a LP12 on my best friend's system several hours per day )and that's why i can't let you said "such bombastic and misinformed comments about it.".
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Tony Fisher
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Joined: April 30 2005
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 967
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Posted: May 21 2005 at 05:21 |
Er, you're having a go at the wrong person, mate! I don't like Micromega CD players AT ALL! And Shangling? Never heard one.
When I said an SME V on a Rega "worked", it meant that there were no significant problems with the use of the arm. What it showed was that the SME did not sound appreciably better than the Rega RB300 on a Planar 3. Whilst accepting that the RB300 is an excellent BUDGET arm, on a revealing deck the SME V wipes the floor with it (and any other arm, for that matter). On the Planar 3, it didn't. This is because the Rega is somewhat coloured and not as transparent as top flight decks.
That doesn't mean it's crap. It means it's excellent at the price. But that price is cheapish.
And the Linn Karma "excellent"? Coloured as hell! Unrevealing! My old Ortofon F15 E was more transparent and my old Elite MCP 555 made it sound like a 50s gramophone (until my son pulled the stylus off). I owned a full Linn system, Oliver. I was relieved when I managed to sell it, too, because it performed way below what my father paid for it. He believed Linn's (and the dealer's) hype and regretted it when he had owned it a few months.
You are obviously young, Oliver. Firstly, you resort to insults when people disagree with you. Secondly, you can't admit you're wrong on anything. And finally, I am beginning to question whether you've actually heard a lot of the stuff you talk about, because if you had, you wouldn't make such bombastic and misinformed comments about it.
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oliverstoned
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Joined: March 26 2004
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Points: 6308
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Posted: May 21 2005 at 01:35 |
"I have seen a V on a Rega (and it worked) but the RB 300 is a better bet because the performance of the V is masked by the faults of the Rega" So you admit a Rega3 with a SME V arm works (and i'st disproportionnal btw). And no, such an arm can't compensate, IT REVEALS! So: you put an excellent arm on this little budget turntable; You put the excellent Linn Karma moving coil cartridge on it in a big system and it works wonderfully. What do you conclude? That Rega 3 is excellent!!! And telling that you prefer a bad little CD like our french Micromega CD or the bad chinese Shangling over your good little musical british players such as Nad, Rotel, Rega, Creek, Naim is already a bad joke, but prefer those bad Cd over a Rega Planar 3 is really pathetic.  
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oliverstoned
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Joined: March 26 2004
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Posted: May 20 2005 at 03:03 |
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I know a rega 3 is less good than a PT, but it's not the same budget.
And no, Rega 3 is not coloured at all.
It's neutral and musical.
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Tony Fisher
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 30 2005
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 967
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Posted: May 19 2005 at 17:06 |
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Regas suffer from basically the same faults as the LP12; they are rather coloured and not very transparent but they do sound quite lively and dynamic (what Linn refer to as "musical - actually anything but). The difference is price; I can tolerate these faults in a budget deck like a Rega but not in an expensive deck like an LP12. And since you can't put the best arm in the world on a LInn (the SME V of course) that seals its fate. I have seen a V on a Rega (and it worked) but the RB 300 is a better bet because the performance of the V is masked by the faults of the Rega. Oh, and because Regas are simple, I've never heard of one going wrong. But compare one to a PT Tarantella or a Nottingham Analogue Space Deck and you'll soon hear what you're missing!
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oliverstoned
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Posted: May 19 2005 at 16:08 |
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What fool are you to prefere our bad little Micromega cd players over your excellent budget Rega turntables?
Obviously, you don't know what you're talking about.
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oliverstoned
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Joined: March 26 2004
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Posted: May 19 2005 at 03:08 |
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ke9 the barbarian
Pfff!
You have never heard a well fitted rega 3 as you have never heard a good Linn;
If what you heard worked less well than a Micromega CD, i understand this was a crappy Rega with a crappy cartridge!
I've heard a Rega 3 with its RB300 arm and a Linn Karma moving coil cartridge on a big system, and it worked wonderfully. (with 2 Jolida 1000 in the highs, F18 Musical Fidelity 600 W power amp in the low, very big Infinity speakers, etc...).
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Guests
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Posted: May 18 2005 at 19:45 |
 oliverstoned wrote:
A toy because of its simplicity?
Only musicality matters, and its very musical.
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About as musical as a box of bog rolls.
I bought this crap Frog micromega CD player today that sounds better than a Rega
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oliverstoned
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Posted: May 18 2005 at 16:37 |
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A toy because of its simplicity?
Only musicality matters, and its very musical.
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Barbarian
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Joined: May 14 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 42
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Posted: May 18 2005 at 15:49 |
oliverstoned wrote:
I suppose you also consider Rega planar 3 as a crap among budget deck?
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I consider a Rega a toy.The Engineering is absolutly appauling
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oliverstoned
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Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
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Points: 6308
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Posted: May 18 2005 at 08:08 |
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I suppose you also consider Rega planar 3 as a crap among budget deck?
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oliverstoned
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Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
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Points: 6308
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Posted: May 18 2005 at 03:09 |
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I was a copy of Acoustic research deck, but with much more precise fabrication.
Obviously, you have never heard a well fitted Linn.
I listen to it daily and that's real great
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Barbarian
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Joined: May 14 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 42
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Posted: May 17 2005 at 17:59 |
oliverstoned wrote:
Actually , the Linn is inspired by the Acoustic research AR, like the others deck you quoted.
The pb with Linn is that it's very delicate:
-It doesn't work with all arms and cartridges: the paradox is that it will not work with an excellent SME V for example.
-It can be put out of order VERY easily, even if you handle it with great care, and it will not work at all!
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The Linn was'nt inspired by the AR-XA or anything.I've explained that the Linn was a copy not an inspiration.
The problem with Linn is it's crap.I don't know what you mean about delicate...The whole reason for a suspended sub chassis is to isolate the ARM/Bearing from outside vibrations,with the motor being mounted on the top plate isolated from that too,but you still go on about isolating the deck etc...Oliver it's all old hat & very out of date boring deck.The Thorens 'TD150' is exactly the same principle as the Linn but not have no overblown crap theories about setting one of those up.Don't you see it's all part of the old Linn marketing sh*t.By the way your not suppose to touch a Linn not mix any other companies arm,a dealer is suppose to do a regular set up service by Linn law,Did'nt you know about that?Yes it is bollox as is the deck.Get real olly
You'll be a good one if you can fit a SME on a latish Linn as it's impossible without choppingaway the corner brace at the back of the armboard as it fouls a SME mounted.
Oliver my friend i'm no longer playing tennis with your silly mumbo jumbo
Edited by Barbarian
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oliverstoned
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Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
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Points: 6308
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Posted: May 17 2005 at 14:51 |
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oliverstoned
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Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308
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Posted: May 17 2005 at 14:47 |
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Actually , the Linn is inspired by the Acoustic research AR, like the others deck you quoted.
The pb with Linn is that it's very delicate:
-It doesn't work with all arms and cartridges: the paradox is that it will not work with an excellent SME V for example.
-It can be put out of order VERY easily, even if you handle it with great care, and it will not work at all!
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Tony Fisher
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 30 2005
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 967
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Posted: May 17 2005 at 14:08 |
From a theory point of view, the use of rigid, heavy material like slate isn't a bad idea as it takes resonances above the audible range. However, the idea was probably spoiled by using direct drive on the JBE which is a joke for top end turntables. I haven't heard the Michell marble but I'll take your word for its deficiencies. The poor sound may not be due to the marble (or slate), though; there's plenty of other factors which could turn a good idea into "pants" sound.
Tony
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