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bluetailfly
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1383
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Posted: May 19 2005 at 14:58 |
ita_prog_fan wrote:
threefates wrote:
ita_prog_fan wrote:
Okay, I'll take the bait...What makes Keith's concerto "puerile"? I've heard the classic composers pieces (granted I didn't formally study them) and they don't sound any more "mature" or "non-puerile" than Keith's. So please, educate me, what am I not hearing that makes it substandard?
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I really dont' want to educate you... or anyone else.
But if you want some details... here they are !
Style is incertain; themes are poorly developed or not developed at all (in some section is resembles Mozart's Musical Joke in F maj. dedicated to improvised composers); some musical gestures has been taken as they are form the composers i named before and simply put in the concert...
But, as i said before, Keith is NOT a classical composer either a classical painist, so it was good enough.
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Again, who are you to say it was poorly developed or not developed at all... it not your taste that Keith set out to appease... it was his own! He thought it was grand... and we all thought it was marvelous and completed, By the way, I found no relation in sound or gesture to Mozart... and you didn't recognize Copland.... so I'm not impressed by your comments...
Just MHO...
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It resambles Mozart's Musical Joke in (no)structure, not in sound... and there isn't much Copland in the concert but, for example, a large use of Prokofiev, especially in the third movement.
One last thing, can you please tell me what is "MHO" ? An insult ?
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Okay, so what you're saying is that because Emerson's influences can be heard in the piece, it is dismissable as serious music. I don't believe that is a valid argument. I'm sure all the great composers riffed off their influences or even stole them outright! No musician creates work without influences.
What needs to be addressed here is why is the piece is poorly rendered. I think Emerson plays with astonishing skill and passion and precision. The piece has discernable complexity that takes repeated listening to truly appreciate. Not sure why you're down on this. Need better rationale.
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"The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle."
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ita_prog_fan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 20 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 258
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Posted: May 19 2005 at 15:10 |
bluetailfly wrote:
ita_prog_fan wrote:
threefates wrote:
ita_prog_fan wrote:
Okay, I'll take the bait...What makes Keith's concerto "puerile"? I've heard the classic composers pieces (granted I didn't formally study them) and they don't sound any more "mature" or "non-puerile" than Keith's. So please, educate me, what am I not hearing that makes it substandard?
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I really dont' want to educate you... or anyone else.
But if you want some details... here they are !
Style is incertain; themes are poorly developed or not developed at all (in some section is resembles Mozart's Musical Joke in F maj. dedicated to improvised composers); some musical gestures has been taken as they are form the composers i named before and simply put in the concert...
But, as i said before, Keith is NOT a classical composer either a classical painist, so it was good enough.
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Again, who are you to say it was poorly developed or not developed at all... it not your taste that Keith set out to appease... it was his own! He thought it was grand... and we all thought it was marvelous and completed, By the way, I found no relation in sound or gesture to Mozart... and you didn't recognize Copland.... so I'm not impressed by your comments...
Just MHO...
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It resambles Mozart's Musical Joke in (no)structure, not in sound... and there isn't much Copland in the concert but, for example, a large use of Prokofiev, especially in the third movement.
One last thing, can you please tell me what is "MHO" ? An insult ?
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Okay, so what you're saying is that because Emerson's influences can be heard in the piece, it is dismissable as serious music. I don't believe that is a valid argument. I'm sure all the great composers riffed off their influences or even stole them outright! No musician creates work without influences.
What needs to be addressed here is why is the piece is poorly rendered. I think Emerson plays with astonishing skill and passion and precision. The piece has discernable complexity that takes repeated listening to truly appreciate. Not sure why you're down on this. Need better rationale.
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Influences are not the problem: Bach was influenced by Vivaldi, Mozart by Haydn, Brahms by Beethoven, Dvorak by Brahms, Bruckner by Wagner, Prokoviev by Rimsky-Korsakov, Bartok by eastern european folk music ...and we can go on for a couple of days.
But taking entire sections of previous works and putting them in your concert, can give a nice risult, but indicates that you are not able to build your own music.
(Listen to Prokofiev's 2nd and 3rd Piano Concert, Bartok's 1st and 2nd)
Edited by ita_prog_fan
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: May 19 2005 at 15:16 |
I have listened to Prokofiev's and Bartok's piano concerto's and I can tell you from fact that he's mentioned Copland as influence... for his piano concerto... and I've never heard him mention either Prokofiev or Bartok as influence for that. He has of course used them as influences in other pieces of music.
Evidently you can build your own music from influences.. otherwise there wouldn't be a composer on the face of this planet. The gift comes from taking the influences and translating them and your own creations into something spectacular... Something that Keith has always been able to do! I was just listening to the Endless Enigma... OMG!! It still moves me after 33 years...
Edited by threefates
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THIS IS ELP
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Jeremy Bender
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 531
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Posted: May 19 2005 at 15:18 |
I found the first and second movements always a bit boring...........but the third movement is brilliant!
One of the best things he ever wrote.....strangely it reminds me of the music of Star Wars.
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bluetailfly
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1383
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Posted: May 19 2005 at 15:21 |
Jeremy Bender wrote:
I found the first and second movements always a bit boring...........but the third movement is brilliant!
One of the best things he ever wrote.....strangely it reminds me of the music of Star Wars.
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Wow, that's a backhanded compliment! I think it's better than the music of Star Wars, which is pretty tame stuff compared to Keith's work.
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"The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle."
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ita_prog_fan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 20 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 258
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Posted: May 19 2005 at 15:22 |
Jeremy Bender wrote:
I found the first and second movements always a bit boring...........but the third movement is brilliant!
One of the best things he ever wrote.....strangely it reminds me of the music of Star Wars.
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No surprise, John Williams in another Prokofiev big "fan"
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Jeremy Bender
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 531
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Posted: May 19 2005 at 15:24 |
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Lateralus_66
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 03 2005
Location: Fiji
Status: Offline
Points: 118
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Posted: May 19 2005 at 15:24 |
I’m really close to a classical pianist with an impressive professional
background, and the fact is that the only prog band that she likes is ELP.
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ita_prog_fan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 20 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 258
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Posted: May 19 2005 at 15:31 |
threefates wrote:
Evidently you can build your own music from influences.. otherwise there wouldn't be a composer on the face of this planet. The gift comes from taking the influences and translating them and your own creations
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This is an undisputed truth... the question is absorbing influences to build something of your own... and this is what the good Keith didn't in his 1st Piano Concerto.
About Bartok, I remember an old interview, Keith was telling about his admiration for Bartok's ability to take out music from the structure of leaves !!!
P.S. Endless Enigma is a beautiful piece of music, and Trilogy was the first album i bought, when i was 12 !!!!
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: May 19 2005 at 15:31 |
Lateralus_66 wrote:
I’m really close to a classical pianist with an impressive professional background, and the fact is that the only prog band that she likes is ELP. |
and.....................
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ita_prog_fan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 20 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 258
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Posted: May 19 2005 at 15:35 |
Lateralus_66 wrote:
I’m really close to a classical pianist with an impressive professional background, and the fact is that the only prog band that she likes is ELP. |
I got (classical) professional pianst friends too, and they all love Keith... Jarret !
________________________________________________-
Ok guys, it has been a nice discussion, but here it's half past nine in the evening and i have to go
to the movie !
Edited by ita_prog_fan
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: May 19 2005 at 17:29 |
I have a brilliant keyboardist friend who is also a huge fan of Keith Emerson's.... however, he is Keith Emerson... so I guess thats only fair!!
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THIS IS ELP
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 26471
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Posted: May 19 2005 at 17:46 |
I like Emo's Piano Concerto a lot.The first movement reminds me of dear ole blighty.The second is just beautifull while the third movement is what Emerson does best... sheer violence Most classical music bores me rigid to be quite honest but I can listen to this quite happily.
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omri
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 1250
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Posted: May 19 2005 at 18:28 |
O.K. !
I can not argue with all the proffesonal staff here. Actualy, this is not very interesting in my eyes. For example - Prokofiev in a classical playing is quite boring & make me tired but the ELP piece that was made from Prokofiev (the god enemy dances with the black spirit - works I) is full of magic & energy.
About the concerto : I will quote myself from the review of that album " The concerto is great and touched me like no other classic piece have done (except for the adoration of the earth - the first part of Stravinsky's rite of spring). I gave it 5 stars (ca'nt give 4.5 so lift it up a beat).
I will quote myself again (reply to the thread of music libraries) : For me prog is the classical music of our time.
say no more !
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omri
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Guests
Forum Guest Group
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Posted: May 19 2005 at 18:32 |
I think it's just great Five stars The two "Works"-albums are IMO very good
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Progger
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1188
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Posted: May 20 2005 at 03:11 |
It took some getting into but I like it. There are only two prog keyboard players who probably have the talent to do something like this. Emerson's one and Wakeman's the other!
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the dragon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 17 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 396
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Posted: May 20 2005 at 03:58 |
One of the best things he ever wrote.
He was heavily influenced by classical music and, of course he was an amazing virtuoso: rumors said that he was able to play classical pieces streched on the piano (then with the keyboard at reverse!).
Some exaggerations, like hammers and knives between keys, was welcome in the '70: now feels a bit silly.
prog forever!
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: May 20 2005 at 08:38 |
No hammers, just knives... and he no longer stabs his organ, nor does he ride it across stage. I miss that, but hey times change. However, he still gives a very lively show.. these days depending on Dave Kilminster, his young guitarist, for the energy. Keith does still play the keyboards in reverse. That always impresses the hell out of me!!
I took this last Nov.
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THIS IS ELP
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ita_prog_fan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 20 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 258
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Posted: May 20 2005 at 10:42 |
threefates wrote:
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Is this Keith last nov ???????????
Oh my God, time is not a gentleman...
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Jeremy Bender
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 531
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Posted: May 20 2005 at 14:00 |
ita_prog_fan wrote:
threefates wrote:
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Is this Keith last nov ???????????
Oh my God, time is not a gentleman...
I think he looks great for a 6o years old man!
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