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Proglover
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 09 2005
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Points: 416
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Topic: Van Der Graaf Generator Posted: September 21 2005 at 14:47 |
Ladies and Gentlemen...may I introduce to you one of the greatest progressive rock bands to lace a pair of boots.Sadly, Van Der Graaf Generator is horribly overlooked and unfairly overshadowed by bands such as YES, King Crimson, ELP, Genesis, Gentle Giant, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, and even Rush or goodness sakes. However, I would just like to point out that the fact that this marvellous band is overshadowed, is by no means a reflection or representation of the band, but rather in my humble opinion the backwards and sometimes closed minded thinking which occurs in the prog rock fan base.
It is certainly clear to me, that Van Der Graaf Generator could go toe toe with ANY of the bands mentioned above. The skills of these men are vast indeed.
When I first listened to VDGG, my initial reaction was..........."so what's the big deal?'...........however after some time had passed, I revisited my good ol' friends the VDGG........and my reaction was ..."My God, what did I not hear before, and how could I be so dense as to not see it on the first hearing"........
From a compositional standpoint it is quite obvious that these man knew what they were doing. Not only is it complex from a musical standpoint, but it's philosophical, intelligent, soo cerebral, impassioned, and at times dark....frighteningly DARK.....
If you do not know the band..I would certainly advise you to start listening to them. They are amazing, and Peter Hammill is one of the most gifted songwriters I have ever had the good fortune to experience. He is truly one of the most passionate lead singers that I've heard.
In a past post I raved about PFM....but truth be told VDGG blows Premiata Forneria Marconi away!! Don't get me wrong, I love PFM, but where they fail in my mind is in their form, and song structure. VDGG has solid and concrete form structure. That added to incredible musicianship, beautiful composition , an intelligent and cerebral approach to music, a deep philosophical understanding, and a tight band makes for a formidable force indeed. Truth be told they are a force to reckoned with.
Someone has to answer for their neglect. It is a crime. .......well not so much their neglect, but rather their subjugation to second rate status......which is absolutely absurd. VDGG is NO SECOND RATE BAND...........
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ummagumma08
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2004
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 280
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Posted: September 21 2005 at 14:59 |
VdGG is possibly my favourite of the great British prog acts from the 1970ies, at the moment only rivaled by Gentle Giant, even though their styles are very different from one another.
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tona
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Joined: July 14 2005
Location: Brazil
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Points: 30
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Posted: September 21 2005 at 15:01 |
my english is no good as yours, neither my knowledge, but i have to say that:
- hammill is the best sonwriter i've ever heard;
- david jackson - divine;
- banton and evans - can't describe.
i don't know much about music, melody and harmony as many others here, i don't know how to play any instrument, but i agree - if vdgg is not the one, it's one of the ones...
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... but i have to know my song well before i start singin'
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
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Posted: September 21 2005 at 15:03 |
I'm not being close minded, I just don't liuke them much!
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geezer
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2005
Location: Cocos (Keeling) Islands
Status: Offline
Points: 606
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Posted: September 21 2005 at 15:04 |
Proglover wrote:
Van Der Graaf Generator is horribly overlooked
and unfairly overshadowed by bands such as YES, King Crimson, ELP,
Genesis, Gentle Giant, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, and even Rush or
goodness sakes.
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I wouldn't say that VdGG is overlooked and overshadowed by Gentle
Giant. These bands are pretty much in the same boat. Incidentally, I
find these two also the best of the ones you listed.
Proglover wrote:
<>>
In a past post I raved about PFM....but truth be told VDGG blows Premiata Forneria Marconi away!!
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I don't agree with this. Absolutely not so!
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10377
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Posted: September 21 2005 at 15:07 |
we'll see VdGG at the Leverkusener Jazztage next month. and since the
concert will be broadcast live on tv, we will program our vcr
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Prodigal
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 18 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 116
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Posted: September 21 2005 at 15:09 |
I'm planning on buying "Pawn Hearts" soon. I'm not into VDGG yet...
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The Hemulen
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Joined: July 31 2004
Location: UK
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Points: 5964
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Posted: September 21 2005 at 15:12 |
Prodigal wrote:
I'm planning on buying "Pawn Hearts" soon. I'm not into VDGG yet... |
Good luck! It may take a few listens to get, but by buggery it's worth the effort!
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samhob
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 26 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 237
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Posted: September 21 2005 at 15:14 |
i have recently bought "godbluff" as my first vdgg cd...
I was a bit disapointed at first hearing , but i do really find this GREAT now..
deep music ...
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Ricochet
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Joined: February 27 2005
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Posted: September 21 2005 at 15:16 |
Van Der Graaf Generator hasn't got the same effect as other claimed
giants of prog like Genesis,Floyd,King Crimson etc...Their music is
just not my taste,with few exceptions...Yet I like very much Peter
Hammill's solo albums...
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Jared
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005
Location: Hereford, UK
Status: Online
Points: 17717
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Posted: September 21 2005 at 15:27 |
Prodigal wrote:
I'm planning on buying "Pawn Hearts" soon. I'm not into VDGG yet... |
Hi Prodigal,
If its of any encouragement, most of my collection is Neo-Prog, Prog Metal & Symphonic Prog, but I recently bought a 3CD introductory collection of Prog stuff, which had 'A Plague Of Lighthouse Keepers' on, which I listened to 4 times.
On the first occasion, I said 'what on earth is this?'...by the fourth, I decided to get a copy of Pawn Hearts, which arrived this morning...and I must say, its rather good...
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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Poxx
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2005
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 231
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Posted: September 21 2005 at 15:31 |
I agree that they are great.
Reasons why people might not appreciate them:
1. The darkness. Even when they are soft, they are melancholic.
2. Hooks, melodies and solos are not so apparent, obvious or noticeable as say, those of Genesis. A good example is the keyboard solo in 'Sleepwalkers', the keyboard solo is not as dominant as the rhythm department.
3. The lack of guitar. Jackson's sax and flute is not tv dinner.
4. Hammill's voice. While he is possibly one of the greatest singers in prog, and rock in general for that matter - his voice is very distinct, in the hateful and angry kind of way.
Edited by Poxx
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GatesOfDelirium
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 109
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Posted: September 21 2005 at 15:32 |
I love VDGG. I was actually listening to them when I came into this topic.
My favorite song is Cat's Eye/Yellow Fever (Running).
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chopper
Special Collaborator
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Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
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Points: 19965
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Posted: September 21 2005 at 15:38 |
Well, here I am agreeing with ProgLover again - VdGG are great.
The reason I think they've been over shadowed by those other bands is
that they're a lot harder to get into. I was a big fan of Yes, ELP,
Genesis and Rush in the 1970s, but I bought "Still Life" and didn't
like it all. I've rediscovered them this year (thanks to ProgArchives)
and now I can really appreciate them. Perhaps it's because I'm more
"mature"? They're definitely not an easy listen.
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Prodigal
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 18 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 116
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Posted: September 21 2005 at 15:46 |
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MoodsWings
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 04 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 106
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Posted: September 21 2005 at 15:49 |
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Proglover
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 09 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 416
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Posted: September 21 2005 at 16:50 |
geezer wrote:
Proglover wrote:
Van Der Graaf Generator is horribly overlooked and unfairly overshadowed by bands such as YES, King Crimson, ELP, Genesis, Gentle Giant, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, and even Rush or goodness sakes.
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I wouldn't say that VdGG is overlooked and overshadowed by Gentle Giant. These bands are pretty much in the same boat. Incidentally, I find these two also the best of the ones you listed.
Proglover wrote:
<>>
In a past post I raved about PFM....but truth be told VDGG blows Premiata Forneria Marconi away!!
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I don't agree with this. Absolutely not so!
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I would just like to clarify my statement, since you decided to paste and copy only a portion of what I wrote. I made it abundantly clear that I do indeed LOVE PFM....I think they are a great band. However the area inwhich I feet they fall short was in the formal structure of their compositions. Now as compared to VDGG, whose form is indeed solid from the first note to its very end...PFM's compositional form is not as adequate.
The music of VDGG makes sense....everything is in it's place, there is no wasted or frivolous activity. Sometimes the music of PFM is scattered and not well put together. It's wonderful music......it's absolutely beautiful music, but lacking in form.
PFM and VDGG are somewhat opposite ends of the spectrum. Both are beautiful....but they are beautiful in different ways. There is a dark, mysterious beauty, a scary, frightful beauty, a sophisticated and philosophical beauty about the music of VDGG............on the other hand, with PFM, they show what we generally consider as being beautiful, more of the accepted view of what beauty is. Beautiful lush harmonies, exquisite melodies which warm our hearts, beautiful instrumentation, a bright, hopeful, colorful array of sounds.
As far as Gentle Giant is concerned..........ON THIS SITE, they certainly get more attention (well deserved attention I might add), than VDGG. Gentle Giant is an AMAZING band, who musical form IS SPECTACULAR!!!......I am quickly falling in love with the dark, contemplation, the almost morbid, meditative, indeed pensive music of VDGG! Genlte Giant still remaning one of my favorite bands with their sheer technical ability and compositional brilliance, may soon have to share the sacred ground with Van Der Graaf Generator!
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Proglover
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 09 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 416
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Posted: September 21 2005 at 16:53 |
Ricochet wrote:
Van Der Graaf Generator hasn't got the same effect as other claimed giants of prog like Genesis,Floyd,King Crimson etc...Their music is just not my taste,with few exceptions...Yet I like very much Peter Hammill's solo albums... |
I DARE say that VDGG is indeed MORE EFFECTIVE than ANY of the bands you mentioned above.....ESPECIALLY Pink Floyd for goodness sakes!!!!!!!
Genesis is indeed effective....King Crimson is indeed effective...but VDGG is as effective if not more than those bands.
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XTChuck
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 407
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Posted: September 21 2005 at 17:08 |
Yeah, Peter Hammill's solo work was much better than the old VDGG stuff. I just could never enjoy listening to them, the music got on my nerves or something.
SORRY!!!
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hegelec
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 24 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 159
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Posted: September 21 2005 at 17:09 |
The band took a while to grow on me, as I often saw Hammill's songs as simplistic (which they are actually not). Hammill is not technically a gifted instrumentalist (neither are Banton, or even Evans for the matter) but his approach to song construction is undisputably brilliant for those who have time to appreciate twists and nuances. The band functions very well as a unit, transcending the limits of the individual player, with great beauty emerging from the sometimes hap-hazard interplay between the instruments. And, of course, their lyrics simply can't be beat.
Newbies should check out "Man-Erg" MP3 on the Van der Graaf section of this site, and "Louse is not a Home" in the Hammill solo section for the best place to start. Happy listening, all.
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Cheers!
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