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BePinkTheater
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 01 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1381
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Posted: January 05 2006 at 22:01 |
How dare you... shame on you
I mean cmon, like seriously. This thread angers me.
A great band with brilliantly orignal ideas and f**king great playing being compared to emo basards you put 5 minutes of car noises on a song and call it innovative!
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I can strangle a canary in a tin can and it would be really original, but that wouldn't save it from sounding like utter sh*t. -Stone Beard
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liquidtheater
Forum Groupie
Joined: July 06 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 71
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Posted: January 05 2006 at 22:20 |
BePinkTheater wrote:
How dare you... shame on you
I mean cmon, like seriously. This thread angers me.
A great band with brilliantly orignal ideas and f**king great playing being compared to emo basards you put 5 minutes of car noises on a song and call it innovative!
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Dream Sequencer System Offline
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Pafnutij
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: Russian Federation
Status: Offline
Points: 415
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Posted: January 05 2006 at 22:26 |
They're two totally different bands playing totally different stuff. Besides, Mahavishnu pwns Volta. I always thought the latter were innovative strictly on a mainstream level.
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captainbeyond
Forum Groupie
Joined: December 05 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 84
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Posted: January 05 2006 at 22:46 |
In case it's even close to necessary, let me reiterate what Pafnutij just wrote: they are TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT BANDS WITH TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT STYLES. MO were a jazz-rock band with some Indian influences. MV are a modern prog rock band an emo background with some vague Hispanic influences and almost no jazz influence.
I love MV and saw them play several years ago in front of 300 people and three times since. I love them and consider them to be possibly the best current exemplar of the prog essence. HOWEVER, their guitarist cannot hold McLaughlin's jockstrap. To even consider is simply absurd (check out not only the MO albums but also the Friday Night in San Francisco album with McLaughlin, Paco DeLucia and Al DiMeola). Moreover, after seeing them play several times, I think their ensemble interplay leaves much to be desired whereas MO are probably the greatest jazz-rock band to ever plug in.
If you're going to compare MV to any classic prog band, I think it would make more sense to compare them to Yes, in terms of their actually mixture of structure and soloing, high-pitched male singer, etc.
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Yanns
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 25 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 999
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Posted: January 05 2006 at 23:23 |
BePinkTheater wrote:
How dare you... shame on you
I mean cmon, like seriously. This thread angers me.
A great band with brilliantly orignal ideas and f**king great playing being compared to emo basards you put 5 minutes of car noises on a song and call it innovative!
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I'm just wondering, how much TMV have you heard?
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jtdotto
Forum Newbie
Joined: December 29 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 18
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Posted: January 05 2006 at 23:39 |
i'm glad so many people have stuff to say about this. it's giving me quite a chuckle. i come from the mars volta side of the fence where i have all their shizz and absolutely love them. then i hear one song off this website from MO and as soon as the lead guitar comes in, instantly i hear some things omar has taken from it. then compare the awesome keyboards and the awesome drumming...damn, i found an old mars volta!!! (to me, that's how i saw it) now, not knowing MO's stuff, and in complete defense of the mars volta, i would have to say that nobody has mentioned anything about lyrics with MO. there's an AWESOME review of frances the mute on this site explaining all the noises and stuff, and i have to say i've been able to 'see' stuff, sober, just images in my head, all the way throughout deloused if i really get into the music. the mars volta makes story albums 'basically'. to fit concepts sequentially with the music fitting together is hard stuff to do. a lot of people who don't like the mars volta just hear them...they don't really understand what everything is...they don't see the feeling the mars volta creates. in response to bepinktheater... what a close-minded non progressive (thats right NON PROGRESSIVE ohhh what are you gonna do now?! bammm!!!) way of thinking. i used to think the mars volta sucked too, until i really opened my eyes and listened beyond my bias and what not about music. and nobody ever says the crazy sounds on their albums are innovative...i believe they are talking about the music. MO is great. the mars volta is great. i get a strong vibe from both bands. i'm not saying either is better. it is merely opinion. im just saying that there are huge overtones of MO in the mars volta. which is cool. and by the way, i believe omar is a damn good guitar player, for not knowing theory and few or no scales. it's just all soul to him, not numbers, no shizz like that. give him a little more respect.
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jtdotto
Forum Newbie
Joined: December 29 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 18
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Posted: January 05 2006 at 23:50 |
sorry gotta post again.
Someo Therguy wrote:
[QUOTE=jtdotto]i don't think anyone is disbuting the fact that MO has more recorded music than the mars volta. MO started in the 70's, the mars volta started in 2001. MO has a good 30 years on the mars volta. all i was saying is that i know MO is an inspiration of the mars volta, and as far as contemporary music goes, the mars volta are the closest thing to them.
Actually what you said was "i think that the mars volta are a modern day mahavishnu orchestra" heh...yes contemporary means modern...are could mean 'are close to.' thats a bit of a stretch but i've reformatted my words many times throughout this post, so don't play the 'you said blue instead of dark blue' card... or something like that. oh wait, i forgot. lets see, i got all of the mars volta's full lengths, including their live album. i got their ep, and i have singles of live versions and weird improvisation stuff. i got omar's solo project and am working on getting his quintet cd, i one of the two de facto records, 2 of at the drive-in's records, you know, their 'punk' band before the mars volta, and have been to their key arena show. but i'm gonna count that show as 8 shows
I think you may have misunderstood here. By listing the various albums Ive heard by MO as well as the number of side projects and other settings I've encountered the members in I was trying to make it clear that I think a statement like your primary thesis is premature. TMV just does not have enough material to make such a statement, IMO. just because i can. someone said earlier about quality and quantity. so the mars volta only having 3 full releases (cuz you know, 3 albums is nothing...mind as well compare that to an ep) means that they don't have enough material to make some side by side comparisons? interesting.[/ COLOR> i can play all of deloused and frances on guitar (well) and am in a band that writes awesome music.
I don't see how your ability to play awesome music has any bearing on the topic at hand. just had to list my share of personal accomplishments.
Thanks.
cuz you know, thats what this topic is about. anyone else care to share?
Boast? No. | have you re-read your post? 'MO has 8 albums (i got 4 look how cool i am) i've been to a drum clinic (yeah thats right, that means i've met the guy, how cool am i guys?! wayy cool) seriously, thats what it sounded like to me. i just had to show how cool i was, cuz i didn't want to be left behind in the 'how cool can i be' contest. along with your ridiculous notion that 3 albums is not enough material to compare bands. ????? wanna clear that up for me?
Edited by jtdotto
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Tholomyes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 16 2005
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 338
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Posted: January 06 2006 at 00:08 |
Yanns wrote:
BePinkTheater wrote:
How dare you... shame on you
I mean cmon, like seriously. This thread angers me.
A great band with brilliantly orignal ideas and f**king great playing being compared to emo basards you put 5 minutes of car noises on a song and call it innovative!
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I'm just wondering, how much TMV have you heard?
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Emo??? Haha . Then i think you listen to Emo all the time to compare TMV with emo bands.
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Guests
Forum Guest Group
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Posted: January 06 2006 at 14:12 |
Even though I am a fan of both i do not see the comparison at all.
Mahavishnu was a jazz/fusion band
mars Volta is progrock.
the band that come to mind when i listen to mars Volta are:
Santana/King crimson/Pinkfloyd/radiohead/Zappa. a litte of all of these.
that's why I love the mars Volta.
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Tholomyes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 16 2005
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 338
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Posted: January 06 2006 at 14:41 |
About Santana i'm not sure, Omar and Cedric were asked about that influence of Santana and they deny it. They quote about their latin influences the Fania All Stars ( if you hear the song called El Ratón you'll have the same latin groove on L'Via L'Viaquez salsa part). Cedric also said that is a huge fan of the Kautrock band Can. While Jon Thedore in Modern Drummer did a list of his favorite albums and drummers:
Bembeya Jazz Nationality - Authenticite 1973 (Conde Mory Mangala)
Bastro - Sing The Troubled Beast (John McEntire)
Don Caballero - Don Caballero 2 (Damon Che)
John Coltrane - Live at Birdland (Elvin Jones)
Rush - Hemispheres (Neil Peart)
Led Zeppelin - Presence (John Bonham)
Tony Williams Lifetime - Believe It! (Tony Williams)
Mahavishnu Orchestra - Birds of Fire (Billy Cobham)
The Who - Live at Leeds (Keith Moon)
Azor Machine - Mapou (Azor)
King Crimson - Red (Bill Bruford)
The Melvins - Lysol (Dale Crover)
Neil Young - On The Beach (Levon Helm)
Black Sabath - Volume 4 (Billy Ward)
James Brown - In The Jungle Groove (Clyde Stubbelfield)
Féla Anikulapo Kuti - Zombie (Tony Allen)
Mastodon - Leviathan (Brann Dailor)
Dr John - Desitively Bonaroo (Zigaboo Modeliste)
Phantomsmasher - Phantomsmasher (Dave Witte)
Jimmi Hendrix - Band of Gypsys (Buddy Miles)
Jimmi Hendrix - Axis: Bold As Love (Mitch Mitchell)
The Jesus Lizard - Head (Mac McNeilly)
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alan_pfeifer
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 823
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Posted: January 06 2006 at 16:16 |
When I commented on Quality over Quantity, I that it's unfair to simply shrug off TMV by saying that they've not recorded enought material. So going by that, it's okay to not compare them to King Crimson? or Led Zeppelin? or any other band they claim as an influence?
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The Hemulen
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 31 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 5964
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Posted: January 06 2006 at 16:41 |
jtdotto wrote:
i think that the mars volta are a modern day mahavishnu orchestra. im
basing purely off the only song available on this site from the mahavishnu
and from my extensive knowledge of the mars volta. both awesome
guitarists in their respected styles (similiar a bit though...i can see where
omar got a lot of his inspiration), both bands know how to convey a
feeling...a strong one. awesome drummers in both bands and awesome
keyboards in both. i also know that omar is a huge fan of these guys.
anyone else agree? |
Sorry, but no. Very very different sounds. I'd say TMV are King Crimson's trendy cousin.
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jtdotto
Forum Newbie
Joined: December 29 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 18
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Posted: January 06 2006 at 18:55 |
thanks to everyone who has contributed. i don't know, maybe im just crazy, but i see the comparison. just wondering, to everyone who has said they can't see it...how much mars volta have you actually heard? because if you only listened to their two songs on the radio and a choice few others, i can see how you can't hear the similiarities. if you have heard it all, and you still can't hear it, let me know why. maybe it's because i listen to the guitar alot and i see similiarites in the styles of omar and john mclaughlin. john has better chops and such, but omar definitely had rockin leads. and in response to this.
Trouserpress wrote:
Sorry, but no. Very very different sounds. I'd say TMV are King Crimson's trendy cousin. | trendy cousin? why, because they've been on the radio and have had a few videos on mtv? because they came from a huge 'post-punk' band? the way i see it, these guys do NOT fit in the mainstream or anywhere near it.
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The Hemulen
Special Collaborator
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Joined: July 31 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 5964
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Posted: January 06 2006 at 19:15 |
jtdotto wrote:
and in response to this.
Trouserpress wrote:
Sorry, but no. Very very different sounds. I'd say TMV are King Crimson's
trendy cousin. |
trendy cousin? why, because they've been on the radio and have had a
few videos on mtv? because they came from a huge 'post-punk' band? the
way i see it, these guys do NOT fit in the mainstream or anywhere near it. |
Steady on, lad! I'm not suggesting their work is any more mainstream
than KC's! They ARE, however, in vogue right now, whether or not you'd
like them to be. I happen to like TMV a good deal - I own Frances the
Mute and will be sorely tempted to get Scab Dates if/when it's a little
more affordable for a poor student like me - and I also love KC. All
I'm saying is that the former are clearly very influenced in sound by
the latter, much more so I'd say than Mahavishnu Orchestra, but by
saying they're "trendy" does that devalue their work? 70s prog was
trendy once. Back in the day ELP were the essence of cool.
...Though that was a mistake.
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16351
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Posted: January 06 2006 at 19:31 |
^ Its true, TMV is quite mainstream. I don't think Mahavishnu Orchestra is that similar to the Mars Volta at al... Maybe both are Prog, but still can't compare.
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The Hemulen
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 31 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 5964
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Posted: January 06 2006 at 19:37 |
King of Loss wrote:
^ Its true, TMV is quite mainstream. |
But I didn't say TMV were mainstream! ARGH!
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jtdotto
Forum Newbie
Joined: December 29 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 18
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Posted: January 06 2006 at 21:47 |
Trouserpress wrote:
jtdotto wrote:
and in response to this.
Trouserpress wrote:
Sorry, but no. Very very different sounds. I'd say TMV are King Crimson's trendy cousin. | trendy cousin? why, because they've been on the radio and have had a few videos on mtv? because they came from a huge 'post-punk' band? the way i see it, these guys do NOT fit in the mainstream or anywhere near it.
| Steady on, lad! I'm not suggesting their work is any more mainstream than KC's! They ARE, however, in vogue right now, whether or not you'd like them to be. I happen to like TMV a good deal - I own Frances the Mute and will be sorely tempted to get Scab Dates if/when it's a little more affordable for a poor student like me - and I also love KC. All I'm saying is that the former are clearly very influenced in sound by the latter, much more so I'd say than Mahavishnu Orchestra, but by saying they're "trendy" does that devalue their work? 70s prog was trendy once. Back in the day ELP were the essence of cool. ...Though that was a mistake.
| yeah, i understand. it doesn't bother me if they are in the maintstream or not, i guess i just mistook what you said. i don't know, i hear a lot of mclaughlin in omar's guitar and the whole kind of minor sounding, eastern kind of stuff. i guess the mars volta are more latin than eastern but like i said...both those bands give off the same vibe to me. but i need to hear more of MO i guess to make a better comparison. oh and by the way, i'm sure you've heard a lot about how scabdates isn't all that great, but i think it's awesome. it may not be the most structured improvisation, but it's really interesting to me and brings back the memories of my first and only mars volta show (which will change when they come back...hopefully).
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 21 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 16351
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Posted: January 06 2006 at 22:25 |
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soundspectrum
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 14 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 201
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Posted: January 11 2006 at 16:20 |
you guys are crazy....dont even compare two different entities...especially when the mars volta are really not doing much to offend anybody in here. I must say though their concepts are to much of a replication of older stuff then trying to be different.....And i dont like like their production sound....Boy, do i miss analog tape
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Figglesnout
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1455
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Posted: January 11 2006 at 16:36 |
I don't agree at all tha the mars volta are mainstream...no more mainstream than yes, genesis, pink floyd, even king crimson...you get it?
i know a lot of people that know of the mars volta, like the people here that think they are emo, evidently you have not given them time or really even heard much of them or else you'd think much differently. as a matter of fact of the people at my school that fit into the "emo" classification that I know none of them like the mars volta. the only people in my whole 2000+ member school (all teenagers and more likely to know mainstream music) that i know of that actually like the band are me adn three of my friends...not mainstream at all considering the new trend lately is pink floyd shirts--which pisses me off on a completely different level. Just saying, they aren't mainstream at all, just more known on our level than say Mahavishnu Orchestra. As to which is the better band, it's all opinion, and the influence is rather evident for mahavishnu on the mars volta...i think people are mistaking "influence" for "sound alike" which is not the case, although i would agree that the mars volta have more sound similarites with crimson than the mars volta.
who's more popular: kanye west or the mars volta...
tough question isn't it?
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I'm a reasonable man, get off my case
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