2 STARS?

Agree-was stunned!!! Very few music pieces actually SPOKE so profoundly and touched so many lives and tastes than DSOTM. It doesn't matter even how many stars it carries, albeit even most provincial DJ on some classic FM rock-station will never fail to put this masterpiece in the list of "Three Greates Albums Ever", what matters that long ago this Music became a CANONIC etalon of penetrating might of progrock and long ago transcended cultural, generational and any other borders and became phenomena!!! Stunned!!!

I only gave it 3 stars.It's overrated in my opinion.I'm glad a few people are prepared to go against the grain.Lets face it for every 2 or 3 star review there will be at least ten 5 star reviews.Not all of us understand why this album is regarded as being so important.Personally I find it dull,pedestrian and lacking in good ideas.In my view it sold in vast quantities to people who didn't like/understand prog rock but thought it was there way in to the genre.Critics have praised it the hilt .But why??.Instead of glorious innovative music lets have  MOR dressed up as prog instead.Pink Floyd have recorded at least 4 albums that are better: (Meddle,WYWH,Animals and The Wall) But 'easy listening Floyd' still wins the day in the minds of many!

Edited by richardh

Andrea is entitled to write what he/she thinks, and really, a review like this is hardly going to make people stop and think "Hmm, maybe it's rubbish after all" - so I don't see a problem with it.

As for the standard of English - I think it's brave to even try to write a review in a language you're not familiar with. Sorry, em, can't back you up on that point.

I don't like it as a review, as it is sweeping and general, but anyone can write a review here, and it doesn't contain foul language and does not set out to upset anyone - even though, as a huge of Floyd fan, any negative review is a bit upsetting to me!

Sorry guys, it was way past my bed time and I spat the dummy clean out of my pram.....however....that said...

On the subject of good English, my apologies for sounding "snobby", which I did but am not. Its just that in order to write a good and articulate review, one which will be of some use to the reader, communicating criticisms and praise, if any, and justifying, or at least illustraiting those stand points effectively, one is advised to use a language, the tool of communication, with which one is at least able to articulate successfully. (Sorry, that last sentence is a little convoluted, so much for successfull articulation. must stop reading Gormanghast.)

DSOTM is still a 5 star album. If  it's not then I've stumbled onto a site in some strange alternative universe, and I wanna go home!

Edited by emdiar

There's a good thread on language in the "Suggestions for the prog archives" section, dicussing the merits and otherwise of allowing reviews in languages other than English.

Personally I still rate DSOTM as an absolute masterpiece. Remember it was released well over 30 years ago. The world had never heard anything like it!

That said, I fully support Andrea's right to voice their opinion, it's just a pity they didn't go into a bit more detail with their criticism. Andrea's reviews have also featured in another thread. All credit to him/her for attempting to "stick to the rules" re language. I reckon his/her reviews are written in a native tongue, then run through an on-line translator.

By the way Emdiar, when submitting reviews, you'll see:

PROGARCHIVES REVIEWS GUIDELINES:

1 - Write in ENGLISH - Minimum 50 words. Feel free to review as many discs as you like.

Edited by Easy Livin

emdiar wrote: Is this true?  I've seen a lot of French, Spanish and Italian on this site. I know of other forums where nonEnglish posts are removed, but I thought we were above such things. It can be frustrating to find a review or post in an unknown language, maar als je dat niet leuk vind, heb je pech !

I believe Max is currently working on remvoing all non-english reviews.

richardh wrote: I only gave it 3 stars.It's overrated in my opinion.I'm glad a few people are prepared to go against the grain.Lets face it for every 2 or 3 star review there will be at least ten 5 star reviews.Not all of us understand why this album is regarded as being so important.Personally I find it dull,pedestrian and lacking in good ideas.In my view it sold in vast quantities to people who didn't like/understand prog rock but thought it was there way in to the genre.Critics have praised it the hilt .But why??.Instead of glorious innovative music lets have  MOR dressed up as prog instead.Pink Floyd have recorded at least 4 albums that are better: (Meddle,WYWH,Animals and The Wall) But 'easy listening Floyd' still wins the day in the minds of many!

Well said Richard. I, too, believe that DSOTM is good, but over-rated.

What I find Interesting is that many on this site turn on a band when they become more commercial...some even go as far as to imply that a band that is commercially successful can't really be prog...yet Floyd have avoided such rath.

A quick look at the numbers:

U.S. Sales: The Wall - 23 million units sold, 3rd biggest selling album in U.S. History; DSOTM - 15 million units sold, 21st biggest selling album in U.S. History; WYWH - 6 million units sold, 236th biggest in U.S. History. In fact, Floyd are the 7th biggest selling recording artist in U.S. History, selling 73.5 million units (more than Mariah, Celine, Whitney, Michael Jackson, Elton, The Stones, Shania...source: R.I.A.A.).

U.K. Sales: DSOTM - 2.1 million units sold, 35th biggest in U.K. history (source: rateyourmusic.com)

Global Sales: DSOTM - 35 million units sold, 7th biggest selling album in Global history (source: everyhit.com).

Floyd is as commercial as it gets.

(P.S. emdiar said: "Your review, much like your command of English, is very poor. Not everyone is cut out to be a writer, and I'm sure you have other strengths at which you excel. Please stick to them" and then comes up with: "....one which will be of some use to the reader, communicating criticisms and praise, if any, and justifying, or at least illustraiting those stand points effectively, one is advised to use a language, the tool of communication, with which one is at least able to articulate successfully". Why are you so judgemental? The phrase "he who live in glass houses..." comes to mind. Obviously, Andrea is using an on-line translator.)

Edited by Arbiter

emdiar wrote:  ..."re your p.s., when quoting me you omitted my last sentence in which I refer to the convolutedness of my own post. Please look up the word 'irony'! Its a bit of a tricky concept, I know, but with practice I'm sure you will grasp it eventually..."

____________________________________________________________ ______

You didn't get many hugs as a child, did you em?

Let's cut to the chase, shall we. The only reason you dissed Andrea in the first place is because she was critical of an album that you like (or love). Her mistake wasn't the criticism, but rather the lack of reasoning for her opinion. The truth is that you took it personally! I'll bet a months pay that if you didn't like DSOTM or Floyd, you wouldn't have said anything about her review, maybe even jumped on her bandwagon.

Bottom line: chill out em! This is supposed to be fun. DSOTM is okay, most would say great. Don't have a hissy fit just because someone gave it two stars. (Andrea's mistake wasn't that she said DSOTM is mediocre/poor, it's that she didn't tell us why or how it's poor.)

Keep it up and I'll have my mommy call your mommy and then you'll really be in trouble!

(Hey, this is fun! By the way em, I took your advice. It turns out that Oxford defines irony as "an ill timed or perverse event or circumstances that would in itself be desirable", and also "a mock adoption of another's views or lauditory tone to ridicule; use of language with meaning for the priviledged few and another for those addressed". I simply asked you why you were being so judgemental (which you still haven't answered, or denied for that matter) and you went and had a turd. Then you turn around and also dis me instead of admitting you "crossed the line". Oh, and, coincidentally, you yourself do not understand the meaning of irony! )

Over to you em!

Arbiter:

The original post was meant to be provocative. I had already apologised, and explained that it was way past my bed time, and that I had spat the proverbial dummy, long before you chipped in. If this explanaition for the judgemental tone of my post (which I did and do not deny, I even held my hands up to sounding "snobby") is not good enough for you, then I'm sorry.

By omitting the last part of my post you seek to imply that I am unaware of the convolutedness of my criticism, and am therefore throwing stones in a glass house. You and I know that that is not the case. I was being convoluted by design, to illustrate my point. In order to make extra sure that no one would jump up and say "ha, thats the pot calling the kettle black", I added the self mockery myself to save you the bother. Had this not been the case I would have rewritten the lot instead. I am very well aware of the meaning(s) of the word irony,

"a mock adoption of another's views or lauditory tone to ridicule"

In this case, a mock adoption of anothers inarticulation in order to illustrate a point of ridicule.

 

ps, , a good night's sleep works wonders, I'm not really the grouch I sound, or half as pompous!

Edited by emdiar

Emdiar wrote:

Your review, much like your command of English, is very poor.

Emdiar I know you have apologized and  believe it's a great gesture, but as a non native English speaker have to give my opinion even when it's a bit late.

As you must remember I was the first one to write a post against reviews in other languages for respect to the owners and readers of Progarchives, but to criticize someone for not using a complex and extended vocabulary is absolutely different and sounds a bit xenophobic.

Nobody except people who have a different native language can understand how difficult is for us to write a coherent review in English, most of us think in our native language and have to translate the ideas to English finding that there are not adequate words to express what we thought in our languages.

I had the luck to start learning English before I was three years and lived in the States so learned to think in English, but still have problems with some words, that's why I can easily understand the trouble Andrea has, and can't do anything but encourage her for the effort. She has the merit of writting in a hostile language (Every language except our native one is hostile).

About her review: I can't disagree more with her opinion about DSOTM, IMHO is a masterpiece but she is entitled to her own taste an opinion, and even if we believe she's wrong, everybody should respect what she honestly writes.

I also admire her courage to write something hard about an album that 99% of prog fans love, that's very brave.

Iván

Edited by ivan_2068