Carl Palmer as a drummer? |
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spleenache
Forum Groupie Joined: September 10 2006 Status: Offline Points: 68 |
Posted: December 27 2006 at 12:28 | |
[/QUOTE]
But I'm curious. What album(s) are you supposedly mixing? You probably won't answer because then it would expose you as simply being an arrogant asshole (rather than being a rich, famous, talented, arrogant asshole), but I feel obligated to ask. [/QUOTE]
Hey I am willing to bet Slipperfink will not respond. Now here is the question is it because he is above us little creatures or he was bullsh*tting all along about his multimillion dollar studio in Manhattan and his fabulously famous friends.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: December 27 2006 at 12:45 | |
For the ELP fans not for this guy who doesn't deserve a reply.
Never said Palmer was bad in any aspect, but as any musician he has strongest points, the web is full of references to Palmer problems with timing, I didn't invented that, his bass drum work always impressed me, it's amazing as his speed and strenght.
But I learned to play drums trying to follow the great drummers not for hours, but for years and despite I don't have a shadow of their talent, I know how to recognize where they are stronger and where not.
His snare and cymbals IMO are not in the level of his bass drum, but if you read my last sentence I said he's IMO one of the top drummers compared with anybody, in his level being not so good in one aspect doesn't mean he's not superior to the vast majority of drummers, only that it's not his strongest feature, he's not God, he's not perfect in everything he does.
About Phil Collins, please check Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot, you will find that Peter Gabriel is credited with bass drum, not only on stage (What is obvious) but also in studio, so some boost was required in that aspect IN THE EARLY GENESIS ALBUMS..
Please check if this happens with any other band.
I don't talk about violin techniques because I don't know a damn thing about violin, but about drums I know the theory and played them so I believe my perspective is more clear.
But the most important, when I say something I use arguments, and if you notice I use my real name, I don't hide behind a nick to feel free to make mockery of other members, if somebody disagrees with me, I accept it, but give arguments not just insults, change of words and bad jokes that only prove the ignorance of the person acting like that.
Iván
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Progger
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 26 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1188 |
Posted: December 27 2006 at 13:04 | |
I can't think of any better drummer in the prog genre. His are the only drum solo's that hold my attention without falling asleep ala Peart & Portnoy.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: December 27 2006 at 13:37 | |
BTW: Just read this quote in the Carl Palmer Gurest Book:
We may not like Phil Collins as a composer but as a drummer he knows what he's talking about, if he dares to say this is because he knows what he's talking about.
BTW II: Thanks for your comments Richardh, I know you're a ELP fan and despite we disagree in two out of the 5 points I mentioned is good to know we agree in most of them.
Maybe the trouble I find with Palmer's snares is linked to the timming but still I believe his bass drum is deep and strong like in Fanfare, Rondo, Karn Evil 9 (All impressions), The Enemy God, etc.
I seen him several times and this fascet keeps impressing me more each time I listen him.
He gives depth to the sound.
Iván
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Jeremy Bender
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 29 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 531 |
Posted: December 27 2006 at 13:46 | |
The question: how would you compare drumming skills of Carl with respect to his contemporaries?
CP is (was) a great drummer:
- incredibly fast
- good snare technique
- versatile (in style and percussion instruments; timps, bells, glockenspiel, synthesized percussion etc.)
- not always steady
- not always a strong backbeat (too soft on the snare)
- i don't know what happened (carpal tunnel syndrome and his karate probably) but he lost 'it' for me after his elp years (after that period he sounds in my ears so forced and not fluid anymore, i'm not saying he was bad but he sounds so different)
CP has played some of the most creative and technical drumplaying i can imagine:
- the barbarian
- tank
- tarkus welcome back version (especially manticore, listen to that, very creative how he plays that sucker)
- jerusalem (maybe the best playing from him ever)
- toccata (that's somethin' every drummer has to hear sometime in his life)
- benny the bouncer (incredibly good and fast brush work)
- the drumsolo on welcome back my friends from karn evil
- his percussion concerto has some nice things, from normal drumkitplaying to timpani, glockenspiel, bells and all that ;-)
- the enmey god dances with the black spirits
- food for your soul
- pirates albert hall version, maybe his best playing on a elp composition
To put CP in context:
- Bill Bruford is a better drummer: better as a groover and better technique, soo fluid (cp is more of force)
- Neal Peart: probably more technical but to my ears far more clinical than CP
- Micheal Giles: i only know his work with kc, so i can't say, but more fluid that's for sure
- John Bonham: CP could NEVER groove like Bonzo, but Bonzo could NEVER play somethin' so creative like toccata
all in all: CP on his best was very technical, fast, creative, and energetic.
And to me my 1st druminspiration (when i heard jerusalem), what i like the most about him is his energy and his versatility.
So, most drummers of today from technical progbands outplay CP in technique(and are more STEADY) BUT I've never heard someone that played somethin' so creative as the barbarian, toccata and several other tracks. Those tracks have a certain magic from a drummers point of view and i've never heard anythin' like it.
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Chus
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 16 2006 Location: Venezuela Status: Offline Points: 1991 |
Posted: December 27 2006 at 13:48 | |
I think he does amazing snare drum (I'm not a drummer, so perhaps I'm wrong)... I think "Tank" is a great example.. the way he rolls and accentuates the beats
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Jesus Gabriel
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: December 27 2006 at 13:55 | |
Good point Jeremy Bender, and I think I clearly stated this in my first post:
Iván wrote:
Saying he's stronger in some fascets doesn't mean he's bad with the others, only that his major strenght is not there.
I agree with most of your points of view, his snare is soft sometimes.
Also agree with The Enemy God, it's amazing.
Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 27 2006 at 13:57 |
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SlipperFink
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 230 |
Posted: December 27 2006 at 14:44 | |
Tony Williams was one of the young Phil Collins's biggest influence. Get a clue. SM. |
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SlipperFink
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 230 |
Posted: December 27 2006 at 14:57 | |
This is the most fun I've had with my clothes on in 25 years.
No really. It's the best. Rock on ProgWizards!!! Whoooeeee. LMFBO. OK. Gotta flee. Back soon with more falsehoods. SM. |
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Ghandi 2
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 17 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1494 |
Posted: December 27 2006 at 15:00 | |
Right.
Sarcasm aside, you didn't answer my question, which only further proves you are liar. You see, people make sh*t up on the internet so they feel more important and/or so people treat them like they're important. Why? Because they can and there's no way to prove it. So everything someone says must be suspect, especially if they come in here acting like a total asshole and telling us wild tales of owning recording studios and engineering a Fripp album.
You could at least tell us who the best young prog band in the world is.
PS Manhattan was a good choice since there's an innumberable number of studios there. Hurrah for unverifiable claims!
There's a difference between not having false modesty and being a total asshole. Edited by Ghandi 2 - December 27 2006 at 15:16 |
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Chus
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 16 2006 Location: Venezuela Status: Offline Points: 1991 |
Posted: December 27 2006 at 15:12 | |
No, you're not Robert De Niro, and this is not Cape Fear, buddy Get a grip, why don't you relax in your personal spa while you call Carmen Electra to give you a massage... then fly with your buddy Robert Fripp on your private jet to see if you feel better... then come back here and have a decent discussion in a more elegant manner... arrogance is not elegant |
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Jesus Gabriel
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spleenache
Forum Groupie Joined: September 10 2006 Status: Offline Points: 68 |
Posted: December 27 2006 at 15:23 | |
SuperFlink you are a funny guy.
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Chus
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 16 2006 Location: Venezuela Status: Offline Points: 1991 |
Posted: December 27 2006 at 15:46 | |
here
I'm not gonna be the devil's advocate on this one.. so judge from here if the guy is really a producer (since I know nothing about production).... either way, there are better methods to prove one wrong (in the hypothetical situation that he's right) |
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Jesus Gabriel
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spleenache
Forum Groupie Joined: September 10 2006 Status: Offline Points: 68 |
Posted: December 27 2006 at 15:57 | |
Hey Superflink how come you never reviewed a single record on this site yet seem mostly lurk in the forums. I bet you get off when others praise your work. If you were such a self confident guy as you pretend to be then you would not hide behind fiction and answer the questions and criticism quarely.
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Ghandi 2
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 17 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1494 |
Posted: December 27 2006 at 16:04 | |
Yes, I know your trolling has succeeded, and I should have known better than to feed your delusions, but oh well. I must admit you use much bigger words and technical words that most people have no way of verifying than most trolls, I guess so you feel better (although a Thesaurus might have helped with that).
If Fripp is paying you, then, logically, Fripp would have played on it at some point, making it to some extent a Fripp album. Whatevever, it's not really important; saying "Fripp album" was much shorter than "that album Fripp paid you to engineer", and the meaning is the same: you know Fripp to some extent, making you better than we scum.
Also, if you are really such a successful and long-time engineer, shouldn't you already *know* prog labels, or be able to find them out on your own, rather than having to ask an internet forum for them? Why don't you tell us what work? You keep avoiding the question. The lavish praise would be even funnier if we knew that you made it and were praising it anyway. Edited by Ghandi 2 - December 27 2006 at 16:14 |
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alan_pfeifer
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 05 2004 Status: Offline Points: 823 |
Posted: December 27 2006 at 16:05 | |
I've not studied Palmer by any means, but form what I've heard he's a pretty good guy.
Ivan, I belive earlier you stated that Jazz drummers sometimes are weaker with basswork. I have to disagree on that front abit, as there's plenty of Jazz-Based drummers out there such as Lenny White and Billy Cobham (who was one of the drummers at the forefront of doube-bass drumming.) who have exclent bass techniqe.
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Chus
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 16 2006 Location: Venezuela Status: Offline Points: 1991 |
Posted: December 27 2006 at 16:24 | |
agreed, Cobham indeed has amazing bass drum techniques... what I don't like about Lenny White is his solos.. they seem a bit random to me (sometimes I felt he crashed the cymbals at random beats)... but Cobham is amazing and could effortlessly follow the rest of the members |
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Jesus Gabriel
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spleenache
Forum Groupie Joined: September 10 2006 Status: Offline Points: 68 |
Posted: December 27 2006 at 16:42 | |
OK SlippingFig you still did not tell me why you never reviewed an album. It would have been great to findout what kind of music rings your bell
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
Posted: December 27 2006 at 16:46 | |
If anyone thinks that Slipper is not for real I found this, but he calls himself Slipperman
http://www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html Edited by Snow Dog - December 27 2006 at 16:46 |
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Ghandi 2
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 17 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1494 |
Posted: December 27 2006 at 16:49 | |
Wow, you are a true asshole. Congratulations. If you don't like what we're doing (which is understandable; I don't like much of what is done here) then don't bother us.
For some reason I imagine you as a bald guy who shouts at everyone he talks to.
Of course you haven't. Now tell us the name of the astoundingly good album that you mixed that we pathetic internot losers will gush over.
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