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mystic fred View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ten steps to environmental nirvana...
    Posted: July 07 2007 at 14:52
How to really help "Live Earth" - instead of flocking to Wembley like a lot of dopes who haven't a clue about Global Warming, and seeing bands there who are only there to get some much-needed publicity and exposure (except maybe the 'Chillies and Metallica), follow Mystic Fred's easy guide to saving the Planet for our descendants !
...what have we got to lose.....?
 
 
Step One - don't waste valuable resources going to "Environmental" pop concerts - stay at home and watch it on your energy saving flat screen telly, there you can eat your organic snacks in peace and won't have to spend hours waiting to be frisked and walking miles finding a loo.
 
Step Two - Work from home - link up with your office via your pc, therefore saving petrol and polluting the atmosphere with carbon emissions. Alternatively get a workplace you can walk to - no more problems if it snows!
 
Step Three -   get rid of  the car - if you do really have to travel build a bike from "recycled" spares.
 
Step Four - stop using  Supermarkets - ("buy one get one free"  is tosh, you'll end up eating too much or throwing it all away anyway) all their stuff  is transported half way across the world using fossil fuels and causing carbon emissions, much better to go to your local shops and buy only locally grown food - the excersize will do you good and you might get to know your neighbours!
 
Step Five - stop flying in Aeroplanes - they are the biggest polluters and wasters of fuel - do you know how many gallons they dump before landing?  If you must pollute other countries use the coach, train or go by ship, still polluting but many times less than planes.
 
Step SixSupplement with your own food - seeds are easy to plant and the food from your own garden, grown with your own hard work tastes much better, doesn't it?
 
Step Seven - Grow your own flowers - many are flown in from other countries, and we don't buy anything imported now, do we?
 
Step Eight - Install your own solar panels in the roof of your house - impress the neighbours and watch those 'leccy bills plummet!
 
Step Nine - Adopt recycling like it was a Religion - one day it will become more important than religion anyway, so instead of wasting time going to Church spend Sunday morning at the local dump!
 
Step Ten - Get rid of the pets - they waste valuable resources - sheep, chickens, pigs and cows are far more useful than cats and dogs, and very friendly when you get to know them!
 
So any suggestions how to save the environment, or suggestions where I can stick my suggestions, will be gratefully appreciated! Big%20smile
 
 
 


Edited by mystic fred - July 07 2007 at 14:59
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2007 at 18:37
Hmmm... I like Step 2 but didn't like Step 10. In the end pets are valuable 'cause they are eating mainly parts that will become garbage: bones, fat, etc  for manufactured food and leftovers for home food. Pets help children begin to know about the other beings that share with us the planet and also very good fellows for lonely, old and disabled people. Smile
 
Step 10 could be changed to: "stop getting pets from the wild". The number of birds, marmosets, monkeys, lizards, snakes, bugs, etc taken from their native places is astonishing and this illegal trade must end now!
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2007 at 19:57
Also, if you do buy pets, it's better to buy ones rescued from the wild rather than buying from a pet store or someplace else where it was likely to have been breeded in a puppy mill (cute word, but awful thing, Google if you don't know what that means).  It's cheaper, and the money goes to an animal santuary rather than supporting a puppy mill.

And I'm a pretty big recycling geek.  I always keep looking for a recycling can if I can't find one (sometimes I go a pretty far distance, but it's good to get a walk in), and a lot of times when I see recyclables thrown out in my house, I move them to the proper location (my family doesn't care as much as me...)


Edited by Bluesaga - July 07 2007 at 20:00
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2007 at 20:06
Wrong: i can give TWO steps to environmental nirvana...
 
1. put a couch and a stereo in the middle of your backyard, wearing a hippie t-shirt, fuchsia sunglasses, no shoes, big pants, bandana, smoking green stuff....
 
2. put a copy of NEVERMIND into the stereo... there you go...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2007 at 20:10
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Wrong: i can give TWO steps to environmental nirvana...
 
1. put a couch and a stereo in the middle of your backyard, wearing a hippie t-shirt, fuchsia sunglasses, no shoes, big pants, bandana, smoking green stuff....
 
2. put a copy of NEVERMIND into the stereo... there you go...

The prog band Nirvana is better than the grunge one (then again, that's not saying much)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2007 at 20:15
 
Step One - don't waste valuable resources going to "Environmental" pop concertsAGREE... "environmental concerts" are money-making concerts anyway.. do you really think the band donate their money to enviromental causes? I don't know... I wouldn't hold my breath though...
 
Step Two - Work from home - AGREE IF POSSIBLE... really, until I have a degree, I have to work hourly jobs.. I don't see how my employer (a big retail chain) will allow me to work from home..Big%20smile
 
Step Three -   get rid of  the car - AGREE... IF YOU LIVE ANYWHERE BUT IN FLORIDA...Here you are just NOBODY without a car.. sad but true..
 
Step Four - stop using  Supermarkets - NOT AGREE... might agree if there were local shops everywhere like in my country.. but even those stores don't have high quality products... and here in Florida, well, I'd have to drive miles to find a local shop, so I'd end using more gas...
 
Step Five - stop flying in Aeroplanes - Confused... OK! I'll start fying in helicopters or friednly hawks then...Really, if you have to go to China, is it realistic to say "take a ship"....NOT AGREE.
 
Step SixSupplement with your own food - AGREE
 
Step Seven - Grow your own flowers - AGREE... but please, don't confuse with "grow your own plants, if you know what I mean...Wink
 
Step Eight - Install your own solar panels in the roof of your house - AGREE.. if you give me the money to buy them, I'll do it. If not, let me work OUTSIDE using MY CAR to go to my job to earn money to buy them.  
 
Step Nine - Adopt recycling like it was a Religion - I COULDN'T AGREE MORE if by that we get rid of all the Pat Robertsons and fanatic christians and muslims....But as idiot an animal as the human is, there would be jihads or "holy wars" based on the environment...
 
Step Ten - Get rid of the pets - SHUT THE Censored...... LOL (my two cats were adopted from a shelter, by the way).


Edited by The T - July 07 2007 at 20:17
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2007 at 20:34
Step eleven - commit suicide, if your not here then there is no way you can f*** with the enviroment.
 
 
but seriously most of those are good suggestions except numbers 2, 3, 4, 5 and 10.
 
2: economy would not work if we all worked from home, who would make things, how would you get them to the consumer, who would fix my toilet?  
 
3: I notice you are from england. in europe there is public transportation such as trains. Here in denver there is one way out of town and that is the interstate, there is ONE lightrail that goes from my house to the city and that is all, and there is no way to reach most towns in the US if you dont drive there. This would be better worded as dont drive cars when at all possible.
 
4. Thats great if you live in a big city but in most small towns in the US there are three stores, they gennerally go by the names of Wallmart, Texaco and McDonalds, not many choices there. It would be more reallistic to say: buy food locally and not from supermarkets whenever possible.
 
5. If you have to travel long distance what choice do you have? If you take a car it will take longer and as it takes longer you will continue to pollute evry place that you stop.
 
10. Cats and Dogs are usefull in china, we could make them usefull, but then you wouldent go for that, far too cute. My dog is good, she guards my house as I have no security system and she helps me hunt in order to fulfill step six.
 
 
I hope you do all of these things, I would not like to associate with a hipocrite, if you dont do all ten of your steps than you should try my step 11.
 
who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2007 at 21:20
Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

but seriously most of those are good suggestions except numbers 2, 3, 4, 5 and 10.
 
2: economy would not work if we all worked from home, who would make things, how would you get them to the consumer, who would fix my toilet?  
I agree - we cannot all work from home, but those that can, could and probably should.
Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

 
3: I notice you are from england. in europe there is public transportation such as trains. Here in denver there is one way out of town and that is the interstate, there is ONE lightrail that goes from my house to the city and that is all, and there is no way to reach most towns in the US if you dont drive there. This would be better worded as dont drive cars when at all possible.
I agree. Public transport does not work in rural parts of England (and Europe) either, but were it does work it should be used and *most* of the population generally lives in urban areas where there is adequate public transport.
 
At present consumption and polution rates there will come a time when personal transportation will not be practical anyway.
Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

 
4. Thats great if you live in a big city but in most small towns in the US there are three stores, they gennerally go by the names of Wallmart, Texaco and McDonalds, not many choices there. It would be more reallistic to say: buy food locally and not from supermarkets whenever possible.
The solution is to put presure on the big stores to sell local produce. There are major stores (eg Whole Foods Market) in the US that only sell local produce - though some of their methods are a bit suspect. The average "food-miles" for fresh produce in the US is between 1000 and 2000 miles!
Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

 
5. If you have to travel long distance what choice do you have? If you take a car it will take longer and as it takes longer you will continue to pollute evry place that you stop.
If you have no choice, you have no choice. However, studies have shown that it is always cheaper to drive than fly (see here) and if it is cheaper then it must polute less by default.
(This year we have chosen to sail to France for our vacation rather than fly.)
Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

  10. Cats and Dogs are usefull in china, we could make them usefull, but then you wouldent go for that, far too cute. My dog is good, she guards my house as I have no security system and she helps me hunt in order to fulfill step six.
 
no argument there - my cat's keep me calm and also keep down the vermin.


Edited by darqdean - July 07 2007 at 21:21
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2007 at 22:29
I agree with some of your points, Fred; others, not. It is an entirely different situation in the densely populated England and the sprawling US, and with the issue of public transport, it's basically unworkable for me, in a city of 200,000-300,000 people with little to no taxi service, few buses, and no rail system whatsoever. Biking is my mode of transport for short distances on good days, but in the late fall/winter, I can kiss that luxury goodbye. Living on a small university campus will do me good, as I can bike anywhere except home, which is 20+ miles of highway each way--too much to stand. I agree recycling should be embraced totally, and its a damn shame it hasn't been.

I'm reading a book by Robert F. Kennedy, "Crimes Against Nature," about the Bush Whit House's f**king up of the environment on so many levels. The cronyism and backtracking of protection laws just kills me.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2007 at 02:15
Originally posted by mystic fred mystic fred wrote:

 
Step Ten - Get rid of the pets - they waste valuable resources - sheep, chickens, pigs and cows are far more useful than cats and dogs, and very friendly when you get to know them!
My dog is going to kill you while you sleep. Even better, my uncle's Alaskan Malamutes will kill you (my dog is kind of a wuss, but they're huge) while you're awake so I can enjoy your screams.
 
Where the hell am I supposed to find locally grown food in Manassas, Virginia? It's a wasteland. Overeating is not a problem for me: I am over 6'2'' and weigh 185 pounds.
 
Recycling is overrated. :P


Edited by Ghandi 2 - July 08 2007 at 02:20
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2007 at 02:27

Step Two - Work from home - link up with your office via your pc, therefore saving petrol and polluting the atmosphere with carbon emissions. Alternatively get a workplace you can walk to - no more problems if it snows!

 

Step Three -   get rid of  the car - if you do really have to travel build a bike from "recycled" spares.

 

Step Four - stop using  Supermarkets - ("buy one get one free"  is tosh, you'll end up eating too much or throwing it all away anyway) all their stuff  is transported half way across the world using fossil fuels and causing carbon emissions, much better to go to your local shops and buy only locally grown food - the excersize will do you good and you might get to know your neighbours!




Agree

I'm doing it,...
I work from home,. No car, I use my bicycle
and get my vegetables from local shops,.
and got few plants in my garden,.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2007 at 02:32
some interesting points for discussion - I thank you all so far for some very revealing comments! Smile  
 
My "suggestions" were deliberately put in a way to sound utterly ludicrous, but quite often today's ludicrous suggestion is tomorrow's accepted way -  for most of us today it would be impossible to adopt most or hardly any of these environment-saving suggestions,  as we are conditioned to using the the infrastucure we have found ourselves with, most of these "steps" are of course unthinkable for us now,  but 100 years ago people were doing all these things quite happily (the recyclers of the late 1940's and 1950's would put us to shame, but their situation was forced upon them by wartime conditions and shortages) - supermarkets didn't exist, hardly anybody had a car except the Doctor, domestic animals were their pets, most grew vegetables and flowers in their garden without pesticides, a holiday was a day trip to the seaside in a motorbus, they shopped at the local market, and most people did go to Church!  - the point is, we find ourselves  trapped by progress,  enjoying a luxury lifestyle our great-grandparents would have hardly dreamed of,  nothing wrong with that of course, we've worked hard for it, but 100 years into the future our descendants may  have to adopt a leaner lifestyle when resources become scarce, maybe even having to follow the "suggestions" above by law .
 
I agree with the pet issue, perhaps it sounds a bit harsh but there are no passengers on the environmental journey, everything has to be useful - cats were traditionally used to keep the mouse/rat population down, how many these days work for their keep?   - most wouldn't dream of getting rid of their cat of course, but even i remember in the 1950's my neighbours keeping chickens and growing some of their own food, meeting each other at the local shops across the road, my dad cycled 8 miles into London every day to work, we walked everywhere (i walked to school) and occasionally used the bus, nothing was thrown away, i even wore all my big brother's old clothes. One down side was that we used coal fires which did cause pollution, gas central heating soon solved that problem.
 
I should have also included only building your own furniture with wood from your own country's replenished forests, but 10 steps is enough to be going on with! Also if you sell your car(s) you can afford to buy those solar panels - your carbon footprint is getting much smaller - it's practically disappeared!
Smile


Edited by mystic fred - July 08 2007 at 02:52
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2007 at 02:39

Step 37 - Give the Whistler all your cash...since, uh, money is a paper good, and therefore evil. The Whistler shall use your despicable paper money to buy non-tree destroying plastic...most notably spare copies of the very environmentally friendly Heavy Horses.

All left over money will go towards building my mansion...my GREEN mansion. It will be built of emeralds. Cool in the summer, no need for AC.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2007 at 03:17
Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

Step eleven - commit suicide, if your not here then there is no way you can f*** with the enviroment.
  
I hope you do all of these things, I would not like to associate with a hipocrite, if you dont do all ten of your steps than you should try my step 11.
 
 
like everybody for me it would be extremely difficult to adopt all  the steps, but -
 
step1, only for the music
step 2 -i can cycle to work easily, will do it this summer as i'm not on shifts.
step 3 - will have to stop using the car someday, but others less active rely on me!
step 4 - i only shop in supermarkets for others less active, i would rather go to the local shop or market, but buy British produce if it is there (no Cox's!) .
step 5 - haven't flown since 1989, never intend to again.
step 6/7 - i grow tomatoes, planning on other foods - i refuse to use any insecticides, which cause ecological devastation, these should be banned by law. there are other ways to deter bugs.
step 8 - big project - seriously considering for the future
step 9 - where i live recycling is almost a religion already by law, but not by all.
step 10 - i wouldn't dream of dumping my cat - would have to get permission from the council for chickens.
 
Smile


Edited by mystic fred - July 08 2007 at 08:22
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2007 at 08:29
Step 10 - why do people have pets anyway? Personally I think its a domination thing
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2007 at 08:44
Another thing: Don't leave things (TVs for example) on stand-by, turn them off completely. Saves a lot of energy. If everyone in Sweden who has a TV turned it off properly instead of leaving it on stand-by, we would be able to shut down another nuclear reactor (we've already shut down two in recent years). 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2007 at 13:33
Originally posted by Philéas Philéas wrote:

Another thing: Don't leave things (TVs for example) on stand-by, turn them off completely. Saves a lot of energy. If everyone in Sweden who has a TV turned it off properly instead of leaving it on stand-by, we would be able to shut down another nuclear reactor (we've already shut down two in recent years). 


But why shut down the nuclear power reactors? Confused
Nuclear power is THE most environmentally friendly source of power available to man today, I hope we can start building a few of them here in Norway soon.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2007 at 14:29
Originally posted by Philéas Philéas wrote:

Another thing: Don't leave things (TVs for example) on stand-by, turn them off completely. Saves a lot of energy. If everyone in Sweden who has a TV turned it off properly instead of leaving it on stand-by, we would be able to shut down another nuclear reactor (we've already shut down two in recent years). 
That's unbelieveable!
 
No, really, it is...
 
Worse case scenario is 7W on standby (most are closer to 3W, modern TV's are 1W). Over one year that is 44KWh per TV.
 
The Population of Sweden is 9 million with 4.2million TV sets.
 
That gives a total of 0.184TWh.
 
In 2001 Sweden's 11 nuclear power stations generated a total of 70TWh, the equivalent of 6.36TWh/station
 
Which means that you would be able to switch off les than 3% of one power station!
 
And you can forget about unpluging your phone charger - it does not draw any power when not charging a phone. I know - I emailed the engineers at Nokia and asked them directly.
 
By all means - switch off your TV - because 0.184TWh is a stupid amount of electricity to waste heating your livingroom while you are at work or sleeping - and that would be the equivalent of 400 metric tonnes of carbon emissions if the electricity was not nuclear generated (nuclear is carbon zero - sorry you cannot count it twice)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2007 at 16:07
Originally posted by limeyrob limeyrob wrote:

Step 10 - why do people have pets anyway? Personally I think its a domination thing
You're missing the point by an almost unbelievably wide distance. But it is nice to know that there is someone more soulless than I. :D
 
You can't find anything revealing on the internet, fred, because this isn't real.
People have had dogs for a long time. Most of them were more useful back then, but there were plenty of superflous pets.
 
People bought locally grown foods back then because that was all they had. It's very difficult to even find locally grown food now because everything has been industrialized, and we can't go back now.


Edited by Ghandi 2 - July 08 2007 at 16:11
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2007 at 07:58
Originally posted by mystic fred mystic fred wrote:

Step Nine - Adopt recycling like it was a Religion - one day it will become more important than religion anyway, so instead of wasting time going to Church spend Sunday morning at the local dump!
 

Step Ten - Get rid of the pets - they waste valuable resources - sheep, chickens, pigs and cows are far more useful than cats and dogs, and very friendly when you get to know them!


Re recycling; we're pretty lucky in that Stevenage council have provided every household with specific bins to recycle cans, paper, glass & even organic/garden waste (face it, few people actually use the composters the councils also gave out) & these are collected weekly; as far as plastics are concerned, the local dump's very good for this - in fact, whenever you go the the dump now, you have to show them exactly what you're getting rid of, and if it can be recycled, you have to use the correct skip, so well done, our council .

On a related note, go into the 'Progressive Music Lounge' and see how many subjects are recycled again, and again, and again...

Now...

Pets waste resources?!?

If it weren't for the pet food industry, where would all the unmentionables from abbatoirs go, eh? All the lips, eyebrows, nipples & intestines?

There'd be a world glut of sausages, that's where!

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