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Topic ClosedBoston???
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Poll Question: Should Boston be given a spot in prog related?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
12 [29.27%]
29 [70.73%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

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Easy Livin View Drop Down
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Points: 15585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2007 at 03:37
I hear what you say Ivan, and thankfully this thread has so far been devoid of such comments. In times past though, even though the wording of the question was clear, we still got posts saying "no because they are not prog".
 
For me, the question here is would adding Boston to the site bring in people who would be interested in prog? I believe the answer to that is a definite YES.
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Points: 2755 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2007 at 02:41
It would be clearly idiotic to claim that a guy who PLAYED in one of the seminal progressive rock bands was not the slightest bit influenced MUSICALLYy by what he had spent a decade playing., and no doubt Phil Collins fans, should there be any, could point out exactly where those influences manifest themselves.  So condition #1 is clearly fulfilled for Collins, and a strong argument could be made on that basis for the Pocaros' as well.
 
As a recent thread has declared, prog-related is not prog.  Your standards don't match your requirements.
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2007 at 00:01
Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

 
Phil Collins and Toto both have a strong case for prog-related in my opinion.  (Not that I'm a fan of Toto by any means.)
 
Why is people obsessed with adding non Prog or Prog Related artists, instead of caring about real Prog bands?
 
Phil Collins has no reason to be in Prog Related, the definition is clear:
 
Quote

Progressive rock is not a separate universe in music, it’s a genre among many others, a voice in the chorus and as part of a biggest scenario has points of contact with other musical genres.

Prog Related is the category that groups bands and artists that:

- Without being 100% Prog, received clear MUSICAL influence of this genre, OR

- Are widely accepted as MUSICALLY influential to the development of Progressive Rock by the community, OR

- Blend characteristics of Progressive Rock with mainstream elements creating a final product that despite not being part of the genre is evident that are close to Prog.

We specify the word MUSICAL because simple performance of a determined instrument in a Prog or mainstream band is not justification enough to include an artist, no matter how virtuoso he/she may be, Prog Archives has to evaluate their compositional work because the music is what determines the characteristics of a band or an artist.

Prog Related bands are not considered part of the genre but they have contributed in some form in the development of Progressive Rock, the inclusion of a band is exceptional and only after verifying that it’s a contribution for the better understanding of Prog among the members and visitors instead of a source of confusion for the community.
http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive-rock.asp#38 

Phil Collins has never released a single Prog song or similar to Prog or related to Prog in any sense during his solo career, so it's absurd, the relation must bne MUSICAL.
 
Phil Collins dioesn't fall in any of those situations.
 
Toto is ridiculoyus, after Roxana, Hollyana, Hold the Line, Africa, Georgy Porgy, etc etc etc, that are simple POP tracks blended with diluted Jazz, they released one  song that could be considered remotely related and that's Child's Anthem, one song in more than 20 albums doesn't justify their inclusion.
 
Neither Boston, not a single Prog or similar to prog or related to prog track.
 
Check Prog bands, this is a Prog site.
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 12 2007 at 00:04
            
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Points: 2755 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 23:40
Originally posted by darqdean darqdean wrote:

Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

Todd Rundgren (not included, but apparently could be if somebody was willing to step up and do a bit of work on it.)
Embarrassed I guess that means me as I am the only member of the Xover team who hasn't heard any of his solo work.
 
 
Start with Initiation, and then A Wizard, A True Star.   The argument I've made with Todd is that if Utopia is included, so should he be, so judge him on that basis.
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Points: 2755 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 23:35
Originally posted by cynthiasmallet cynthiasmallet wrote:

I say No. Once Boston are In, that will open the door for the likes of Journey, Toto and Phil Collins, which will lead to the likes of Chris DeBurgh and Barry White. Before you know it we will be crawling around on our hands and knees flinging our own s**t at our PC monitors.
 
Phil Collins and Toto both have a strong case for prog-related in my opinion.  (Not that I'm a fan of Toto by any means.)
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Points: 46828 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 23:03
Originally posted by markosherrera markosherrera wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT_jCPSGrao
 AWESOME AOR band but not prog imo
 
 


LOL  thanks ...  all us who thought they were can sleep easy now...



say 3 times please....

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42309

but thanks for proving my point why these polls are useless Clap
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Points: 3252 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 22:35
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT_jCPSGrao
 
 AWESOME AOR band but not prog imo
 
 
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Points: 46828 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 21:00
Dean... we can take up Boston for Xover.. but do recommend bringing your athletic supporter with the big ass cup.. and even a  bulletproof vest to our meetings.  We might need as squad to SAS troops to keep us from getting mowed down as we enjoy our linguine and chianti LOL

btw. I'll get you some Rundgren so we had put that baby to rest....


Edited by micky - November 11 2007 at 21:01
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Points: 19236 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 20:42

Strictly arena rock.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 20:39
Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

Todd Rundgren (not included, but apparently could be if somebody was willing to step up and do a bit of work on it.)
Embarrassed I guess that means me as I am the only member of the Xover team who hasn't heard any of his solo work.
 
....Ah Grud! Unhappy Now Boston - you got me there too - I have no knowledge of them either so would be hearing them with fresh ears. But since Micky has already indicated "no" for Xover, that's academic.
 
However I do agree with Logan - if a band cannot be seriously considered for a true prog sub, then they shouldn't be put in PR either. Any controversy should err towards Prog, not away from it (ie "X are far to Prog to be PR" type arguments).


Edited by darqdean - November 11 2007 at 20:40
What?
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Points: 6890 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 20:25
Whaa?
 
Are we talking about the one album wonder whom are considered a staple calssic rock band.
 
No, no... no.
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 20:23
Originally posted by sircosick sircosick wrote:

 
Thanks for the arguments Sircosick.

That label of AOR is such a nonsense when it comes to add a band like Boston; they were responsible to resurface Classic Rock...... yep, classic rock more than "Pop" they are certainly (oh, neo-classic rock if you wish LOL).
 
This is not a CLASSIC ROCK site, this is a PROGRESSIVE ROCK site.
 
And BTW: AOR sound of the late 70's is not a nonsense, it'ts Rock blended with POP, they are not or never were a Classic Rock band,. they are an AOR band.
 
But forget the AOR label if you want, your words clearly state that Boston is a Rock band, not a Proggressive Rock band, if you want more, let them be a Classic Rock band....We shouldn't add all Classic Rock bands, if not, why is not here Bruce Springsteen,
 
This is a Prog site and should be kept in the possible like that, Boston influenced nobody in Prog, and of they ever did it was less than evicent.

So I'd dare to say Boston is progger than Deep Purple, for example.... but only due to their protagonism on AOR scene, they shouldn't be added? Confused
 
That's your opinion, but 73% of the members in annother poll fpr rog Related specifically.
 
Quote
Poll Question: Boston are they prog related and should they be added ?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
11 [26.83%]
30 [73.17%]
 
And with the time, the percentage against their inclusion is similar but higher:
 
Quote
Poll Question: Should Boston be given a spot in prog related?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
4 [22.22%]
14 [77.78%]
 
 
So after some time, a higher perecentage of members (almost 8 of each 10) is against their inclusion in Prog Related, asked specifically, not Prog, nothing ambiguous, the question is clear and Prog Related is clearly mentioned, so no confusion can be argued.

I'm not promoting their addition; I don't even care about it..... I just love them. But there are points beyond their addition that need to be discussed IMO.
 
Again, even if they are a Classic Rock band, they shouldn't be here, this is not a Classic Rock site, and despite what Mickly said, the Adms have stated that the "if X why not Y" argument is flawed.
 
Iván
 
BTW: Micky, the labels are not stupid, they describe characteristics, due to your long fight, you managed to add three new labels (Crossover, Eclectic and Heavy Prog) that didn't existed before.
 
Boston is AOR and/or Arena Rock THAT'S A FACT, nothing more, nothing less, no relation with Prog...What would come next...Europe?



Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 11 2007 at 22:01
            
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Points: 46828 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 19:57
^ exactly.... lots of things to dicuss... other than tossing stupid labels around


let's start with that bullsh*t about Boston being proggier than Deep firckin Purple LOLWink
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Points: 1264 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 19:54
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

They are the icons of AOR, that disqualifies them, it's just better POP than the average but nothing more, no way they should be added.
 
Iván


That label of AOR is such a nonsense when it comes to add a band like Boston; they were responsible to resurface Classic Rock...... yep, classic rock more than "Pop" they are certainly (oh, neo-classic rock if you wish LOL).

So I'd dare to say Boston is progger than Deep Purple, for example.... but only due to their protagonism on AOR scene, they shouldn't be added? Confused

I'm not promoting their addition; I don't even care about it..... I just love them. But there are points beyond their addition that need to be discussed IMO.
The best you can is good enough...
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Points: 46828 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 19:29
Originally posted by E-Dub E-Dub wrote:

I fear we would be loosening it up a little too much if we allow Boston in. Personally, I like the band, but just because they have a big sound doesn't really make them prog.

I voted no.

E


that door has been flung wide open Eric...   lets face it.... PR additions are 'if x then y'.. because they are not .. and can not be judged individually.  Simply because you are not talking about adding a group IF they prog.. or rejecting a band because they are not prog.  That is black and white has has nothing to do with any other group.   PR is different... you are talking shades of prog.. and once the benchmark is established.. especially with well known groups...  you either appear to be playing favorites.. or just doing a shoddy job if you pick and choose who is added or not.  You have to ask... is Boston as Prog Related as some addtions ...if they are ...they should be here.. simple as that.  IF not.. they shouldn't be.

For what it's worth.. there were those who warned about the door being thrown open.. but the site is to be inclusive.. so that is what we have here. 


Edited by micky - November 11 2007 at 19:30
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Points: 7910 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 19:23
I fear we would be loosening it up a little too much if we allow Boston in. Personally, I like the band, but just because they have a big sound doesn't really make them prog.

I voted no.

E
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Points: 46828 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 19:14
^ it's a good thing then we still have members here ...and an admin team that actually evaluate groups fairly without just hearing a name and a label and voting based on that hahahhah.  How many groups have failed such polls Ivan.. only to be voted in by a panel of objective people... the admins.   Those polls are worthless ... always have been.  We had people that wanted ELO not in PA's at all... why... because they thought of the group as a disco group. LOL Enough said on the polls.   Obviously the admins have never put this up to a vote.  They should.. if only to have the definitive word on this.. so they aren't suggested yet again. 
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 19:04
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

 
The problem with this sort of poll is that even though they are being proposed for prog related, many will vote NO on the basis they are not prog.
 
 
 
Not accurate Bob, it has been done before
 
Quote
Poll Question: Boston are they prog related and should they be added ?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
11 [26.83%]
30 [73.17%]
 
The question here is clear it's askd if they are PROG RELATED, and 73% of the members voted NO. please Bob, we know how to read, i don't believe they are related in no way with Prog.
 
I believe the opinion of the members is clear,. Boston is no}tven Prog Related, the polls are clearly written, they mention Prog related, nopt Prog, so why must we assume people don't know what they are voting for?
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 11 2007 at 21:55
            
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Points: 46828 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 18:58
Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

 
I've never been much of a Boston fan, but at the same time, can see that they took a lot of their influence from some of the heavier prog bands, so prog-related is probably a good place for them.  They are definitely not prog though, xover or otherwise. 


exactly .. though there will still be people that say they should be here because they aren't prog LOL


If they don't want these bands suggested.. they should have the damn Prog RELATED category.. but since they do... they should be there. 
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Points: 8543 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2007 at 18:54
Originally posted by cynthiasmallet cynthiasmallet wrote:

Having listened more closely to their works, i retract the s**t flinging comment from earlier this evening. However, I still don't think that they are proggy enough.
 
Oh but that was the best post in this thread so far.  You can't retract.  LOL
 
I've never been much of a Boston fan, but at the same time, can see that they took a lot of their influence from some of the heavier prog bands, so prog-related is probably a good place for them.  They are definitely not prog though, xover or otherwise. 
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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