| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
explodingjosh 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 10 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 507
|
 Posted: March 05 2008 at 23:02 |
 MikeEnRegalia wrote:
StyLaZyn wrote:
p0mt3 wrote:
explodingjosh wrote:
I think that "quoting" and "covering" are completely legal, creativitly wise. In Dream Theater's case, I don't think they even need to explicitly reference a band when they quote them. Like in the intro to Octavarium, its so blatant and obvious what they are quoting (if you know Shine On), a reference in the liner notes would be a "no sh1t" statement for most of their listeners.
I think the problem is when the players sound way too close for comfort to another band. Its disappointing when you're craving new ideas. But I think these moments depend on the listener. I personally was pissed when I heard how James was singing (like R. Waters) in SFaM. I tried to not let it ruin the album for me.
|
Thank you! Someone else who can hear the Waters influence in LaBrie's SfaM work!
Having said that, I think SfaM (along with Octavarium, Awake and Images and Words) is one of the best albums DT ever did. The influences don't really bother me, but I think it's absurd when people defend them on the grounds that "all music is ripping off someone". Well, obviousely, but no other band really shows their ifnluences so obviousely; only DT. |
Yep...there is a blatant ripoff of Waters from the Wall. But that's what you get when you lack creativity. Unless of course he intended to do so, in which case he better have throw Waters a bone in the liner notes.
For the record, I much prefer Octavarium, rip offs and all, over Systematic Chaos. I put in SC the other day and couldn't take it anymore during track 3. You know, I keep trying, hoping, but it never pans out. I did end up buying it for collection purposes, but there is a reason SC was collecting dust.
Bring back KMoore!!!!! Bring back the DT of old!  |
Do you guys seriously think that Waters invented that particular style? I'm sure that thousands of singer/songwriters did it before him.
I wish some people would get off their high horse here ...
|
Yea... I'm pretty sure the 'high horse' comment is for me, especially the 'I tried to not let it ruin the album for me' part of my comment... I can see how that would sound 'high horsey'. But I promise, I was serious when I said it.... When I first heard that part of the album I really was saying, out loud, "'WTF is this?! that's freaking roger waters!!' I was sincerely angered. It seemed to me that LaBrie ripped off (not 'covered' or 'quoted', but ripped off ) Water's singing style that people, especially DT/prog fans, are very familiar with. To me, it's not like James LaBrie thought "oh, well I'm going to sound personal and quiet in this part of the song, because it goes well with the lyrics", he thought "I'm going to sound like Roger Waters, because it goes well with the lyrics."
Edited by explodingjosh - March 05 2008 at 23:03
|
|
|
 |
The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: March 06 2008 at 00:29 |
I still can't understand why other artists never get the same treatment...
just an example (and I LOVE the music and his voice and lyrics): Why does nobody create a thread called "Example of Fish's and MArillion's influences". Oh, that would be an even easier one: THREE. Peter Gabriel, Peter Hammil, and GENESIS.
Oh but Labrie sounds a little like Waters. Man, I'm sure Waters never heard any other music.
Try learning about music history, AND NOT JUST ROCK but from the begginings, or let's make it easier, from the baroque era. Mozart's first works sounded baroque, Beethoven's early works sounded like Haydn's or Mozart's, Brahma, while a master, sounded a little like Beethoven (he even quotes him in the First Symphony's fourth movement), Sibelius's first 3 symphonies sounds like Tchaikovsky's.... And on and on. And even those masters always retained elements of their influences, always. Bruckner revered Wagner, he even used Wagnerian tubas in some works; Stravinsky never denied his sound being a result of influences. In rock, EVERYBODY sounds a little bit like the Beatles, Porcupine Tree was PinkFloyd mark II at their origins... yet only DT is guilty of "being influenced" and only Waters was genius enough to sound 100% original.
|
|
|
|
explodingjosh
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 10 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 507
|
Posted: March 06 2008 at 00:52 |
|
Yea but DT is making millions and all the n00bs love them!
just kidding! just kidding!
But seriously, shown by the mixed opinions, I think its all about perception: What one hears, compared to what one has heard before. It's like the subjectiveness is doubled.
Edited by explodingjosh - March 06 2008 at 00:58
|
|
|
|
The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
|
Posted: March 06 2008 at 01:11 |
As much as that post confused me, I certainly agree with it 
|
|
|
|
StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
|
Posted: March 06 2008 at 08:20 |
| =StyLaZyn
OK, example
from The Spirit Carries On
"Where did we come from?
Why are we here?
Where do we go when we die?"
Now tell me you don't hear either "Nobody's Home" or even more so "One of My Turns". The vocal style is so close.
|
Quoting myself...that is very cheeky of me. Nonetheless, I remember another song, off SFAM as well. Does the song "Home" have parts that sounds familiar to anyone? Perhaps a tune by the name of Eulogy by Tool?
The first time I heard "Home", and I really do dig the tune still, I keep hearing something familar. It so happened to be another favorite of mine. That bass line is cool as heck but come on. There it is, plain and simple.
Again, I don't discount the abilities of DT. They are awesome musicians. But all this time, has it been that they borrowed materials from others? I'd say the most original material had come in the early days when creativity was plentiful. They haven't really given us anything new in some time.
|
|
|
|
heyitsthatguy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 17 2006
Location: Washington Hgts
Status: Offline
Points: 10094
|
Posted: March 06 2008 at 14:57 |
StyLaZyn wrote:
| =StyLaZyn
OK, example
from The Spirit Carries On
"Where did we come from?
Why are we here?
Where do we go when we die?"
Now tell me you don't hear either "Nobody's Home" or even more so "One of My Turns". The vocal style is so close.
|
Quoting myself...that is very cheeky of me. Nonetheless, I remember another song, off SFAM as well. Does the song "Home" have parts that sounds familiar to anyone? Perhaps a tune by the name of Eulogy by Tool?
The first time I heard "Home", and I really do dig the tune still, I keep hearing something familar. It so happened to be another favorite of mine. That bass line is cool as heck but come on. There it is, plain and simple.
Again, I don't discount the abilities of DT. They are awesome musicians. But all this time, has it been that they borrowed materials from others? I'd say the most original material had come in the early days when creativity was plentiful. They haven't really given us anything new in some time.
|
actually I was thinking more 46 and 2 than Eulogy, that song's probably the first surfacing of them REALLY wearing their influences on their sleeves (and one of the last 100% tolerable offenses in my book)...it's only that one main riff that makes me think of it though, and Adam Jones certainly didn't do any of those runs that Petrucci does  although I haven't heard AEnima in a while so maybe my memory's foggy... 
|
|
|
|
StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
|
Posted: March 06 2008 at 15:04 |
heyitsthatguy wrote:
StyLaZyn wrote:
| =StyLaZyn
OK, example
from The Spirit Carries On
"Where did we come from?
Why are we here?
Where do we go when we die?"
Now tell me you don't hear either "Nobody's Home" or even more so "One of My Turns". The vocal style is so close.
|
Quoting myself...that is very cheeky of me. Nonetheless, I remember another song, off SFAM as well. Does the song "Home" have parts that sounds familiar to anyone? Perhaps a tune by the name of Eulogy by Tool?
The first time I heard "Home", and I really do dig the tune still, I keep hearing something familar. It so happened to be another favorite of mine. That bass line is cool as heck but come on. There it is, plain and simple.
Again, I don't discount the abilities of DT. They are awesome musicians. But all this time, has it been that they borrowed materials from others? I'd say the most original material had come in the early days when creativity was plentiful. They haven't really given us anything new in some time.
|
actually I was thinking more 46 and 2 than Eulogy, that song's probably the first surfacing of them REALLY wearing their influences on their sleeves (and one of the last 100% tolerable offenses in my book)...it's only that one main riff that makes me think of it though, and Adam Jones certainly didn't do any of those runs that Petrucci does although I haven't heard AEnima in a while so maybe my memory's foggy...
|
Guess what? You are right. It is "46 and 2" and not Eulogy. There's a big D'OH!!! from me.
No Adam Jones doesn't pull off the epic guitar runs. It is a highlight that Petrucci yields.
|
|
|
|
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Examples of Dream Theater's influences
