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Grimfurg View Drop Down
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Points: 265 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2008 at 11:41
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Originally posted by Grimfurg Grimfurg wrote:

Originally posted by MisterProg2112 MisterProg2112 wrote:

I'm not huge on thrash but I do listen to Testament, Megadeth, Pantera, and Slayer every once in a while. Also, a really impressive new thrash band is Trivium IMO. Some pretty good guitarwork.

I'm sorry, but Trivium are NOT thrash. They're actually pretty bad.
 
Thrash and bad are not mutually exclusive...
 
The test is whether or not they use alternate picking to produce quick rhythms over a heavy back beat, not whether you like them or not... Wink

Sure, probably, but the true meaning of thrash is riffs, that kill. I'm sorry, but they are not thrash. The riffs are extremely mediocre, normally they rip your face off. And the "heavy back beat" that you speak of, sets a bad example from other thrash.

Pantera aren't really thrash either. Both of the bands are "Groove Metal" (I know I hate the name as well, but it's a real sub-genre).

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Certif1ed View Drop Down
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2008 at 15:34
Originally posted by Grimfurg Grimfurg wrote:

(...) the true meaning of thrash is riffs, that kill (...)
 
Is it?
 
I'm not supporting the claim for Trivium, as I'm not familiar with their music yet - but if they use the technique I described, then they play thrash.
 
Simple as that - it has nothing to do with quality.
 
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Grimfurg View Drop Down
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Points: 265 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2008 at 11:29
Yes but even the technique doesn't really describe to thrash anyway. They're an awful attempt of trying to be thrash.

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Certif1ed View Drop Down
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2008 at 04:49
Originally posted by Grimfurg Grimfurg wrote:

Yes but even the technique doesn't really describe to thrash anyway.
 
I'm not sure how you reach that conclusion - surely that is the basic underlying technique?
 
Originally posted by Grimfurg Grimfurg wrote:

They're an awful attempt of trying to be thrash.
 
Again, I'm not sure if you're making one statement or two here.
 
I've Youtubed Trivium and they do, indeed play thrash in many sections of their songs. I'd agree that it's not particularly imaginative or technical thrash - and in most of the live recordings, not particularly well executed either. The studio recordings have a good NuMetal style production - but it ends up making them sound the same as everyone else.
 
Not really awful, but not very original or musically talented either. I'd prefer to listen to Killswitch Engage - or even Slipknot.
 
Their cover of "Master of Puppets" is better than Dream Theater's - but nowhere near the original - they make it sound like hard work, fluff the pre-solo guitar part, make the twin lead part sound mechanical and bodge most of Kirk's beautiful decorations. Then they destroy the "Master, Master" section with that stupid double bass drum, and I nearly died when I heard the fast solo - that was really nasty.
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Petrovsk Mizinski View Drop Down
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Points: 25210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2008 at 10:05
Trivium, as stated earlier, had their beginnings in metalcore (and metalcore nowhere near up to the standard of a band like say Killswitch Engage IMO), and with their 2006 release The Crusade, Matt Heafy changed his vocal style from metalcore screams to James Hetfield type thrash vocals. That album I believe was a cross between Groove and Thrash Metal. A lot of kids that have recently gotten into the metal scene really like them, but many of the more "Old Guard" thrashers do their absolute best to distance themselves from a band like Trivium and similar style comtemporaries. And after listening to Trivium, I can see why and I have to agree entirely with Certif1ed's analysis of their MoP cover, it would have best left untouched by Trivium.
 
 A lot of people have felt Trivium have done nothing new for the genre, and have basically rehashed the 80s thrash style and attempted to add (rather awfully and unoriginally) the lead guitar style of the dynamic duo of Cacophony-era Jason Becker and Marty Friedman, except unlike our 2 masters from Cacophony, the youtube videos of the Trivium guitarist show some pretty sloppy chops quite frankly, I would be willing to bet there are guys on this forum that outshred the Trivium guys, and given Mike (MisterProg) has stated he can play Cliffs Of Dover on guitar, there you go, there is already one forum member that can play guitar better than the Trivium guys, and more tastefully I'd imagine too.
We have our "Retro Rock" bands, a theme I'm quite sick of, since I'm a person about pushing into the future and what was great and innovative at the time, was truly great for it's time, but now a band that is doing "Retro Rock" is not going to come across as exciting as Led Zeppelin did at the time Zep was innovating. Same for Trivium and their similar comtemporaries, it just seems to be "retro thrash" and nothing more. If I want to listen to modern metal, I want to be hearing a band that isn't about recreating an era, but a band that is going to create for now and the future.
 
Just a quick note on Pantera, some of the songs on Cowboys from Hell are indeed thrash metal songs, but every album after that was purely Groove Metal and even some of the songs from CFH were already treading the groove metal water, so Pantera are really considered a Groove band and not a thrash band (Groove is considered a Neo/Post-Thrash genre).
 
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mithrandir View Drop Down
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Points: 933 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2008 at 14:50
Originally posted by HughesJB4 HughesJB4 wrote:

(Groove is considered a Neo/Post-Thrash genre).
 
 
you people and your sub-sub-sub genres of Metal are funny to me, Tongue
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Points: 20700 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2008 at 15:50
Never heard of Groove Metal ... definitely won't add it at RF as a tag. Might add "Sleaze Metal" though, as a replacement for "Party Metal". Wink
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Points: 5898 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2008 at 16:12
Originally posted by HughesJB4 HughesJB4 wrote:

We have our "Retro Rock" bands, a theme I'm quite sick of, since I'm a person about pushing into the future and what was great and innovative at the time, was truly great for it's time, but now a band that is doing "Retro Rock" is not going to come across as exciting as Led Zeppelin did at the time Zep was innovating. Same for Trivium and their similar comtemporaries, it just seems to be "retro thrash" and nothing more. If I want to listen to modern metal, I want to be hearing a band that isn't about recreating an era, but a band that is going to create for now and the future.
 
That's not why I dislike the current retro rock fad. I dislike it because:
 
1) Most of those bands aren't interested in really saying anything with their music, they're just interested in revisiting their childhood memories. Now, there's nothing wrong with that in music but only when the band bring something more than that to the table. (which I doubt most of these are even interested in)
 
2) The people marketing it and the target audience are types who treat classic rock as a fashion accessory. This is the worst approach anyone can have to music, because it makes you impossible to be a true fan... all they think about is how listening to music like they made it in the seventies make you retro-cool in an ironic kitschy way.
 
In short, it's mostly disposable fluff for shallow trendies. The related "retro metal" fad is exactly the same deal, as you said. Notice how real metalheads don't care much about The Sword and Wolfmother?
 
Compare to something like early Monster Magnet (from long before retro rock became a trend, also notice that they eventually moved beyond the whole retro thing)... when you listen to, for example, Superjudge you can hear that it's by and for people who understand what made 1970s acid rock great. It's channeling the spirit of its inspirations, not just emptily recreating its form like a Cargo Cult on a Pacific island building wooden effigies of airstrips and cargo planes.
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Grimfurg View Drop Down
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Points: 265 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2008 at 05:40
Bah forget it I give up.

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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 20700 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2008 at 06:22
^ Trivium are Thrash ... but they also add other elements, mostly Metalcore and Nu-Metal. Apparently many fans of old school Thrash don't like that, but that doesn't mean that they're not Thrash.
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Grimfurg View Drop Down
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Points: 265 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2008 at 14:32
Nu-metal? :s

Look it's not that I don't like the fact that they're mixing with different styles. It's just really mediocre. For me it's mediocre enough to not call it thrash.

I mean, come on: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Lp8p5OPtEe0

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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 20700 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2008 at 16:55
^ one of their albums was album of the month in Rock Hard magazine, who are quite independent. I don't like Trivium, but they're certainly not a bad band.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3rSfGtLzshc

I still don't really like them, but it *is* thrash.





Edited by MikeEnRegalia - May 24 2008 at 17:01
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RKS1987 View Drop Down
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Points: 51 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2008 at 17:20
Its not thrash metal. 
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 20700 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2008 at 17:24
^ http://www.last.fm/music/Trivium

#1 Metalcore
#2 Metal
#3 Thrash Metal

Pretty much what I have been saying all along.


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - May 24 2008 at 17:24
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RKS1987 View Drop Down
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Points: 51 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2008 at 17:34
It can't be called "thrash metal" alone its not pure thrash metal therefore it can't be called as such.
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 20700 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 24 2008 at 17:39
^ Ok, I could live with that. I would not call them "Thrash Metal" either, they're Metalcore ... with many elements of Thrash Metal.
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Toaster Mantis View Drop Down
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Points: 5898 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2008 at 06:12
On the subject of Trivium... LOL
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Nightfly View Drop Down
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Points: 3659 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2008 at 10:42
I see Testament have a new album out.........got a good review in Classic Rock. Anyone got it?
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 20700 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2008 at 11:08
^ I bought the vinyl edition a few weeks ago ... I like it a lot. IMO it's easily on par with their classic albums.
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Prof. View Drop Down
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Points: 183 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 25 2008 at 21:27
I feel like such a Thrash Virgin, the only thing that I listen to thats considered Thrash is my early Metallica.
 
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