Magma´s ideology controversy. Read this!

There was also a really bad computer game called M.D.K. 

d.o.k wrote: harmonium.ro wrote: ^ I would assume that referring to Magma also includes Vander, it's logical. Yeah but I could be a pedophile+neo-nazi+murderer and absolutely not expressing it in my band's music, that is why I see a difference between the man and the musician, member of a band.

That's a good point, but on the other side, all the evidence provided were interpretations of his work and acts as a musician, not personal deeds.

Henry Plainview wrote:   Some rumors aren't worth addressing. Of course, that only makes some people believe in them more (WHERE'S OBAMA'S BIRTH CERTIFICATE!!??), but responding to the rumor that you're a Nazi will only perpetuate the belief that you're a Nazi. And it won't convince the people who want to believe otherwise.

That is indeed a good point too.

harmonium.ro wrote: @ Dok: On the contrary, in the last link they clearly say they belong to NO ideology and that all such accuses are not true.

which can also be considered as a very easy answer since it's answering about Magma the band but not Christian Vander himself. Still no denying.

BaldJean wrote: James wrote: I'm not sure yet... As I see it. Mekanik Destruktiw Kommandoh = M.D.K. (the ultimate weapon) = Murder, Death, Kill.  Coincidence?  Perhaps but I don't think so. If you listen to the beginning of the Retrospektiw I-II version of M.D.K., you'll notice it is different to the studio version.  In fact, I can imagine the crowd pumping their fists in the air and yes, it does kind of remind me of Nazism. However, this could just be an ideology and he's using it as an example of how "evil" the Kobaians are. For those who may not know.  M.D.K. is the third part of the Theusz Hamtaahk Trilogie and is the story of the prophet Nebehr Güdahtt who tries to tell the people of earth to cleanse themselves by singing the "Zeuhl Wortz" (in worship of Kreuhn Kohrmahn) to save themselves (the first part, Theusz Hamtaahk narrates the war between Earth and Kobaia).  Some don't believe him and march against him.  Whilst some do believe him and march for him. Unfortunately, Vander has not made clear whether the Kobaians destroy earth.  If this is the case, then there could be a slight case of Fascism here. However, many novelists write about subjects they don't necessarily agree with.  Was Nabokov a dodgy guy for writing Lolita? oh, come on, James. MDK can stand for ANYTHING, if you argue like that.  how about "Mango, Dattel, Kokosnuss" (German for "mango, date, coconut"), 3 exotics fruits?

Indeed.

But if it does correlate with Murder, Death, Kill it doesn't matter anyway as I don't think Vander's a Nazi or a Fascist.

James wrote: I'm not sure yet... As I see it. Mekanik Destruktiw Kommandoh = M.D.K. (the ultimate weapon) = Murder, Death, Kill.  Coincidence?  Perhaps but I don't think so. If you listen to the beginning of the Retrospektiw I-II version of M.D.K., you'll notice it is different to the studio version.  In fact, I can imagine the crowd pumping their fists in the air and yes, it does kind of remind me of Nazism. However, this could just be an ideology and he's using it as an example of how "evil" the Kobaians are. For those who may not know.  M.D.K. is the third part of the Theusz Hamtaahk Trilogie and is the story of the prophet Nebehr Güdahtt who tries to tell the people of earth to cleanse themselves by singing the "Zeuhl Wortz" (in worship of Kreuhn Kohrmahn) to save themselves (the first part, Theusz Hamtaahk narrates the war between Earth and Kobaia).  Some don't believe him and march against him.  Whilst some do believe him and march for him. Unfortunately, Vander has not made clear whether the Kobaians destroy earth.  If this is the case, then there could be a slight case of Fascism here. However, many novelists write about subjects they don't necessarily agree with.  Was Nabokov a dodgy guy for writing Lolita?

oh, come on, James. MDK can stand for ANYTHING, if you argue like that.  how about "Mango, Dattel, Kokosnuss" (German for "mango, date, coconut"), 3 exotics fruits?

I'm not sure yet...

As I see it.

Mekanik Destruktiw Kommandoh = M.D.K. (the ultimate weapon) = Murder, Death, Kill.  Coincidence?  Perhaps but I don't think so.

If you listen to the beginning of the Retrospektiw I-II version of M.D.K., you'll notice it is different to the studio version.  In fact, I can imagine the crowd pumping their fists in the air and yes, it does kind of remind me of Nazism.

However, this could just be an ideology and he's using it as an example of how "evil" the Kobaians are.

For those who may not know.  M.D.K. is the third part of the Theusz Hamtaahk Trilogie and is the story of the prophet Nebehr Güdahtt who tries to tell the people of earth to cleanse themselves by singing the "Zeuhl Wortz" (in worship of Kreuhn Kohrmahn) to save themselves (the first part, Theusz Hamtaahk narrates the war between Earth and Kobaia).  Some don't believe him and march against him.  Whilst some do believe him and march for him.

Unfortunately, Vander has not made clear whether the Kobaians destroy Earth.  If this is the case, then there could be a slight case of Fascism here.

However, many novelists write about subjects they don't necessarily agree with.  Was Nabokov a dodgy guy for writing Lolita?


Edited by James - January 18 2010 at 13:29

toroddfuglesteg wrote:   BaldJean wrote:   but I am an historian and know too well that the hands of the winners are blood-stained as well That's why I am sceptic towards the ones who glorify Mao and Stalin too. A view I expressed in my review of Little Red Record by Matching Mole.

I've always wondered if the sleeve of Little Red Record wasn't meant as parody. After all, Mao's Red Guards never approved of long-haired proggers, and perhaps Wyatt & Co were aware of this.

On the other hand, Wyatt actually went on to join the British Communist Party and he recorded a song in praise of Stalin. Now THAT's where I don't go along with him.

 

BaldJean wrote:   but I am an historian and know too well that the hands of the winners are blood-stained as well

That's why I am sceptic towards the ones who glorify Mao and Stalin too. A view I expressed in my review of Little Red Record by Matching Mole.  

 

Edited by toroddfuglesteg - January 18 2010 at 12:56

fuxi wrote: Raff wrote: I'd like to bring up the case of one of my favourite writers - HP Lovecraft. He was openly racist (and a lot of his work, as well as his letters, support this fact), and for a time he was a keen admirer of Hitler. Knowing this, I still manage to enjoy reading Lovecraft's stories, though obviously the more racist passages make me cringe. Or take Céline. In spite of his disgusting anti-semitism he wrote one of the greatest French novels of the twentieth century. Or Ezra Pound. His support for Italian Fascism was plain stupid - but he wrote a great deal of highly enjoyable poetry!

we should also keep in mind that history is always the history of the winners. which means they usually depict themselves as choirboys and the losers as black as they can. mark that I am not denying the Nazi crimes. but I am an historian and know too well that the hands of the winners are blood-stained as well