What do we all think of Starcastle on this site?

Steve

 

This is what the Peruvian band FRAGIL (Doesn't sound as Yes, just in case) says about copyists in the song "Mundo Raro (Strange World).

 

 

I share their opinion.

 

Iván

The 4 bands I mentioned above were not so obscure on the European early 70's underground prog scene.
Italy, Paris, the booming prog scene in London etc. As mentioned a few times on this site, it was highly connected to theatre and the arts. Much of it became more so contrived from mid to late 70's through the media while the underground scene in Europe was still going strong. The difference between the late 70's clone band's and the early 70's original underground prog band's, was the extent of emulation of the big 5 or what ever number you prefer, ELP, Genesis, Crimson.........The clone band's were extreme. The early 70's proggers were adding influence to their own vocabulary. Me and a bunch of friends went out for the afternoon sampling Starcastle and others of that genre only to find ourselves discouraged over the future of prog. As usual, I go off but, here is an example of the clone sound.....Kansas are playing "Songs For America" and during the center of the piece you begin hearing a piano, a time signature, and modes that are the representation of "Take A Pebble". No doubt, Kansas are an outstanding band and briiliant solo musicians. From observation of the wax museum people, it would seem that hundreds were offended at the birth of Starcastle. I am about to bail from this mouse trap and say .....it is not a concern of mine from any point of view however, it is interesting to think of how Starcastle were judged back then.  

And I share the opinion of Ivan Melgar.

 

Yes I agree they both had some originality in the writing department but, with Triumvirat, only when they wanted to as many of their epic style pieces are too reminiscent of Keith Emerson's playing and writing structure. I remember when Curt Cress joined and they were writing much different or maybe just being themselves and expanding. When you compare them to the early 70's prog bands, it is only then that the extreme emulation of Emerson is revealed. Unless you are a musician and can plainly hear the notes or style of phrasing that you've played yourself.

Many prog fans that are not musicians can hear the distinctive Emerson sound and style in Triumvirat but, it becomes more extreme and evident to the musician. A good musician who has played these formulas for decades will be able to tell the difference in the extreme emulation of greats by late 70's prog band's and the basic adaption of greats from the early 70's prog bands. The early prog bands added the perfect dose of Emerson influence, K.C., Jethro Tull and Genesis and when musicians first heard Triumvirat and Starcastle in the 70's, they were turned off because of it's crafty ways of emulating what was written before. Emerson emulated classical composers but, more important was the effort to do something else with it. This way if an influence was evident to all, at least the artist had a great originality to them. It all worked out fine until prog bands of the late 70's went on a mission of emulation. They imitated artists who created Progressive rock from the early 70's and a bit too much for my tastes. I mean, Emerson and Banks or Wakeman and Greenslade were influenced by period composers and in the lyricism was the concept or foundation that one applies in theatre. They were all very inspired by the masters but, there was no need to copy the same formula over and over. The same approach to an epic for example. Which was what the late 70's prog band's were doing.

 

Good comments on Triumvirat, I saw them live in 1976 and was very impressed!  The bassist Helmut Kolland was great on bass & vocals, and did very impressive electric guitar work as well.  

I knew the band Starcastle back in the 1970's in Champaign, IL.   Much like Yes at the beginning, they started as a cover band and did brilliant and innovative versions of songs like "Saturday Night" by Elton John, "Jumpin' Jack Flash" by the Rolling Stones etc.   Guitarist Steve Hagler was excellent on tenor sax! 

Clearly, they were influenced by Yes.  However, they also showed influences from other bands....keyboardist Herb Schildt did a mean Keith Emerson Hammond organ routine, and was also fine on Moog synth!   They were out to generate a genuine, original sound, rather than just copy the Yes sound. 

To know them and see them back then was to appreciate a band of very talented guys following the "Yes formula" = survive on covers while developing the original material.

What many apparently don't know is that the band suffered a horrible tragedy, with their van (band members and gear) going off the road, breaking guitarist Hagler's back.  Herb lost his Hammond organ, he was really bummed by the event as you can imagine.  

This is insightful, but my recollection was that the accident happened shortly after their first LP of original music was released:

Oh well, not the first star-crossed band to succumb to a string of unlucky events!  Gary Strater on bass was outstanding, he died from pancreatic cancer a few years ago.   I miss Gary, he gave the band tremendous energy and drive.   NOT a Yes-clone, believe me!