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Kilgannon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2011
Location: Cider Country!
Status: Offline
Points: 158
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Topic: UK: AV Referendum, your vote? Posted: May 01 2011 at 17:27 |
So, who in the UK is turning out for the vote on AV and what, if you aren't opposed to revealing your choice, are you voting?
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32587
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Posted: May 01 2011 at 17:29 |
AV stands for American what now?
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topographicbroadways
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 20 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 5575
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Posted: May 01 2011 at 17:32 |
Wondered when this would show up here. It'll be the first vote i'm eligible for so I may turn out. If I do vote it'll be No. The campaigns have been incredibly off putting though, especially as my opinion is against AV I don't particularly want to be associated with the ridiculous No Campaign.
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Kilgannon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2011
Location: Cider Country!
Status: Offline
Points: 158
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Posted: May 01 2011 at 17:47 |
Epignosis wrote:
AV stands for American what now?
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Unfortunately nothing American  , 'tis the 'Alternative Vote' potentially to replace the First Past The Post system, with ranking your choice of party/candidate 1,2,3 etc and your vote gets re-allocated as the voting goes on should your first choice be eliminated (by being the lowest voted for party), subsequent rounds only occuring should no party achieve 50%+ of the vote.
^ As for ridiculous campaigning: +1
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Points: 37575
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Posted: May 01 2011 at 17:54 |
AV is a crap idea, it's not PR, but it's marginally better than what we've got at the moment. The No campaign is being less than honest and that's what's wrong with politics in this country. When they stoop this low you do have to wonder what it is they are affraid of exactly.
I'm voting Yes because I have little choice in the matter - voting No will be taken as a vindication of the First Past the Post system and I cannot allow that. First Past The Post means that whoever gets elected has the support of just over 1/3rd of the country, just under 1/3rd of the country votes for the opposition and about 1/3rd of country votes for people who have no say in how the country is run, and that's a really really crap system no matter how you look at it.
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What?
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Kilgannon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2011
Location: Cider Country!
Status: Offline
Points: 158
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Posted: May 01 2011 at 17:56 |
^ Couldn't agree more, felt the need to wash my hands after reading David Cameron's 'Why I'll be voting No' leaflet that came through the door this morning. So much misinformation and propaganda.
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Ozexpat
Forum Groupie
Joined: February 09 2009
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 57
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Posted: May 01 2011 at 18:29 |
As an Australian living in the UK, I understand more than many in this country how the Preferential Voting system works. In Oz it is compulsory from your 18th birthday to vote. Australia uses this system and there is nothing to be scared of.
The basic premise is that you vote for who you want to win. Then, if they don't gain enough votes to win, your next preference goes to the one you want to win more than the others. It is more representative because, while your first choice might not have enough votes, your next choice may have. It's not a black and white decision between winning and losing. If there are two parties that have similar views to yours, then you can vote for both without compromise. You simply decide between them which you prefer to other parties' policies. Thus you never "waste" a vote ie. voting for the Greens (because you believe their policies) in a solid Conservative seat.
Under the current system if you live in a solid Conservative, LibDem or Labour seat, and you don't agree with them, your vote for any other party would be wasted.
However, under the AV, your vote for the party of your choice would count. It hands back power to the individual. How many times have you said/heard "well I didn't vote for 'em" ?
It doesn't automatically mean that minority parties win but it does send a clearer measage to the major parties as to what the public are thinking. This then effects policy.
It's a win-win.
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And for a moment when our world had filled the skies, Magic turned our eyes,
To feast on the treasure set for our strange device
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Kilgannon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2011
Location: Cider Country!
Status: Offline
Points: 158
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Posted: May 01 2011 at 18:33 |
Agreed, my problem with a lot of the leaflets going round is that they claim it's confusing and unfair; which I feel gives very little credit to the British public. As you say, if I vote Lib Dem (hypothetically) but they come in last place, my vote doesn't then disappear into un-countable oblivion, it gets to be used in a meaningful way between the final two parties deemed most popular by EVERYONE.
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Ozexpat
Forum Groupie
Joined: February 09 2009
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 57
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Posted: May 01 2011 at 18:42 |
Exactly. Nobodies vote is wasted. The main parties may win but it is very clear where the publics preferences lie.
Policy is then structured around this.
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And for a moment when our world had filled the skies, Magic turned our eyes,
To feast on the treasure set for our strange device
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topographicbroadways
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 20 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 5575
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Posted: May 01 2011 at 19:18 |
I would be more in favour of them bring Compulsory Voting to this country
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 04:30 |
Am voting No.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 04:44 |
I am against this 100%!
I will be mailing in my vote tomorrow.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 04:52 |
JJLehto wrote:
I am against this 100%!
I will be mailing in my vote tomorrow.
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And the No campaigners will gladly count it.
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What?
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Badabing666
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 30 2008
Location: Devon, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 248
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 04:53 |
Dean wrote:
AV is a crap idea, it's not PR, but it's marginally better than what we've got at the moment. The No campaign is being less than honest and that's what's wrong with politics in this country. When they stoop this low you do have to wonder what it is they are affraid of exactly.
I'm voting Yes because I have little choice in the matter - voting No will be taken as a vindication of the First Past the Post system and I cannot allow that. First Past The Post means that whoever gets elected has the support of just over 1/3rd of the country, just under 1/3rd of the country votes for the opposition and about 1/3rd of country votes for people who have no say in how the country is run, and that's a really really crap system no matter how you look at it. |
I've already said Yes on my postal vote. Agree entirely with Dean perspective on this subject.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 04:56 |
Dean wrote:
JJLehto wrote:
I am against this 100%!
I will be mailing in my vote tomorrow.
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And the No campaigners will gladly count it. |
Good. For the mailing address I can just send it to "England" right?
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 04:59 |
Better follow instructions and address it to President Clegg just to be sure.
Edited by Dean - May 02 2011 at 05:00
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What?
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 05:03 |
Dean wrote:
Better follow instructions and address it to President Clegg just to be sure.
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akamaisondufromage
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 16 2009
Location: Blighty
Status: Offline
Points: 6797
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 05:22 |
Dean wrote:
AV is a crap idea, it's not PR, but it's marginally better than what we've got at the moment. The No campaign is being less than honest and that's what's wrong with politics in this country. When they stoop this low you do have to wonder what it is they are affraid of exactly.
I'm voting Yes because I have little choice in the matter - voting No will be taken as a vindication of the First Past the Post system and I cannot allow that. First Past The Post means that whoever gets elected has the support of just over 1/3rd of the country, just under 1/3rd of the country votes for the opposition and about 1/3rd of country votes for people who have no say in how the country is run, and that's a really really crap system no matter how you look at it. |
Most part ageed. This is no choice at all. Trouble is if you vote for AV and it changes there will never be another vote again in my life time!! aggh! Who was it who decided that the only choice was to be this? At the moment I am tempted to spoil my vote 
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Help me I'm falling!
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Syzygy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 16 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 7168
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 07:15 |
I'm voting 'no'. I'm not opposed to electoral reform per se, but this is an unwieldy system that is not a real alternative to what we have at the moment. I would be happy with a single transferable vote (which would make a real difference in marginal constituencies) but under the AV system my vote could (unlikely but possible) go towards the BNP or UKIP, which I'm really not comfortable with.
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'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'
Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13891
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Posted: May 02 2011 at 07:53 |
I will be voting yes, an absolute no-brainer as far as I am concerned.
BTW - votes will not go to UKIP, BNP etc. In fact, this system makes it harder for them to make inroads - that's why they are opposing it.
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