Greg Lake vs Peter Gabriel |
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mohaveman
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 22 2007 Location: Arizona USA Status: Offline Points: 409 |
Posted: April 04 2012 at 16:11 | |||
Peter
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12609 |
Posted: April 04 2012 at 19:09 | |||
Isn't that what Resaissance does? They have 3 or 4 shorter songs, plus perhaps 2 or 3 songs near the 10 min in their albums if I remember correctly. |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: April 04 2012 at 19:12 | |||
The other way round....except for Ashes Are Burning. They have more songs in the 7-10 minute length and a couple of ballads. And again by Song for All Seasons, they went back to writing more short songs with just a couple of long pieces. There's nothing wrong with writing 10 minuters but they are honestly not very good at it, barring notable exceptions like Trip to the Fair, Things I Don't Understand or Ashes are Burning (song), and they may have been better served with more short songs in every album. Edited by rogerthat - April 04 2012 at 19:13 |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: April 04 2012 at 20:04 | |||
Anybody can take them, I heard Steve Hackett (AMAZING guitarist but not so great singer doing it), the problem is HOW THEY DO IT. IMO Collins butchered Supper's Ready, Musical Box and The Lamb Lies Down. Iván Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 04 2012 at 20:04 |
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12609 |
Posted: April 04 2012 at 22:57 | |||
OK, let's see. Ashes are burning: 2 nearly 10 min songs, one song over 5 min, and 3 songs under 5 minutes. So I guess this album is fair enough if what you want are shorter songs with more Annie singing and less instrumentation. Turn of the Cards: 3 nearly 10 min songs, 1 over 5 min song, and 2 under 5 min songs. This one has a bit more of long songs, but it still has it's share of not so long songs (the over 5 min song doesn't reach the 7 min). Scheherazade: OK, fair enough, this one is mainly long songs, only one under 5 min, and it's got a 20 min epic. Novella: 2 nearly 10 minutes songs, 2 over 5 minutes songs (one doesn't reach the 6 min), and one under 5 min. Yeah, this one isn't very good on short songs, either. Song for all Seasons: 2 nearly 10 min songs and 6 under 5 min songs. I believe this one should have it's fair share of shorter songs. Azur D'or: 10 songs, all under 5 minutes (well, one is 5:13). If you want short songs, this one should be perfect. I didn't check out the later albums, but I believe they must be even more dominated with short songs. So, as far as I can see, there must be quiet a good share of shorter songs if that's what you are looking for. And, besides, this is a prog forum, so anything under 10 min should actually be considered short Still, whether the longer songs have good instrumentation or not, that depends on the listener. As far as I'm concerned, my favourite Renaissance songs so far are "Ashes are Burning", "Mother Russia", and "Scheherazade", so I rather go with the longer songs with more interaction between melodies and Haslam's vocals. Whether those melodies have a lot of orchestra support or not, I don't really care, I like the final product... very much. |
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hobocamp
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 17 2010 Location: Fine Furniture Status: Offline Points: 525 |
Posted: April 05 2012 at 07:58 | |||
I agree with everything you wrote. Up changed my taste in music forever. I have immense admiration for PG. It is a compliment imo to have a massive ego. Still like GL's vocal quality, range, power and expressiveness more. Edited by hobocamp - April 05 2012 at 08:01 |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: April 05 2012 at 10:59 | |||
I didn't mean it that literally! I think Collins did a good job on Seconds Out and I won't elaborate on that but Kevin Gilbert also rendered convincing versions of Lamia and Back in NYC. If I remember correctly, even Gabriel appreciated Jeff Buckley's cover of Back in NYC. The beauty of Gabriel era Genesis songs lies in the vocal melody itself and less in their delivery. Gabriel seems to be well versed with English...I mean, better than the likes of Lake and he can dramatize the lines in a way that sort of sounds clever. But the delivery itself is not exactly exquisite. |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: April 05 2012 at 11:04 | |||
I don't think we are saying something very different as far as the albums go. Ashes...and Song for all Seasons favour short songs more, while Scheherazade is the most lop sided in favour of long tracks. When it comes to long tracks, I like to hear the music develop and on many of their long pieces, hardly anything happens. Can You Hear Me even has a few minutes of simply playing more or less the same notes over and over without building any great deal of momentum. Without Annie's vocals, most of their long tracks would fall flat...except songs like Trip to the Fair or Things I Don't Understand. Now why it is that they didn't try to write more tracks like those, with some mystery and intrigue rather than just stately bombast, I have never understood. |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: April 05 2012 at 11:06 | |||
My point there was simply that it's not so much about what John Tout or Camp were playing, which Ivan had said, but the presence of the orchestra to beef up the sound. |
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12609 |
Posted: April 08 2012 at 01:44 | |||
As a matter of fact, I would say that there are 3 things that stand out in my favourite Resaissance songs:
- Annie's vocals (of course). - John Tout's piano (I really liked it a lot from the beginning). - The orchestration (it fits the music and Haslam's vocals a lot). And I still like many of the instrumental passages a lot, and don't find them flat nor anything. But then again, that's me. However, I guess we should stop talking about Annie Haslam on this thread, we are way out of toppic. Edited by Dellinger - April 08 2012 at 01:46 |
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13418 |
Posted: April 08 2012 at 01:50 | |||
It's normal that if you make Leonard Cohen sing "Ashes Are Burning" the song may result flat. The ability of using at the best your instruments is a skill, if you have Annie Haslam in your band you can rely on her voice, where's the problem?
Listening to Carnegie Hall you can find a lot of instrumental passages where Annie's voice is not present and of course, with the orchestra is better than in studio, but how can you say that Mother Russia is "flat"? Just to mention one song.
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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com |
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 25 2011 Location: Los Angeles, CA Status: Offline Points: 10970 |
Posted: April 08 2012 at 03:02 | |||
Sorry for jamming in, but let's get back to Peter and Greg . Let's take the Renaissance discussion to another thread.
Edited by Dayvenkirq - April 08 2012 at 03:03 |
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theadolescentprogger
Forum Groupie Joined: March 23 2012 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 88 |
Posted: April 08 2012 at 11:39 | |||
Gabriel is a better frontman, but Greg is a better musician and has better vocals. My vote goes to Greg.One of my favourite vocal performances.
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 25 2011 Location: Los Angeles, CA Status: Offline Points: 10970 |
Posted: April 08 2012 at 12:59 | |||
Dead on, man ! I do have to give credit to Peter for doing his best at singing as well, but his vocal timbre is just ... compared to Greg, so I keep my vote for Greg. Edited by Dayvenkirq - April 08 2012 at 13:04 |
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Capt Fongsby
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 07 2012 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 403 |
Posted: April 08 2012 at 16:07 | |||
Hm, a bit surprised at how clearly skewed the voting is, given that the OP specified "voice only". Oh, well.
Gabriel's good, but my vote goes to Greg for his vocals with KC and classic ELP. |
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Rev Edwin North
Forum Newbie Joined: December 29 2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1 |
Posted: December 29 2012 at 13:38 | |||
Immature outspoken atheists? So speaking out about atheism is immature? Hitch, Dawkins, Harris etc? Given how theists behave with their imaginary friends and seek to oppress atheists I don't think speaking out is particularly immature.
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zeqexes
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 19 2012 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1238 |
Posted: December 29 2012 at 15:52 | |||
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A-JCharron
Forum Newbie Joined: December 31 2012 Location: Montreal Status: Offline Points: 12 |
Posted: December 31 2012 at 01:28 | |||
Lake has one of the greatest voices in music. Gabriel is a good singer, but his voice is hardly above average.
Listen to the live stuff, Lake is a much more accomplished singer, if you forget about the 90's. In this year's tour, his voice was incredible! |
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Humouring Gods; Where Classic Meets Rock
http://www.ajcharronmusic.com <a href="http://[email protected]" |
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The Truth
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 19 2009 Location: Kansas Status: Offline Points: 21795 |
Posted: December 31 2012 at 02:07 | |||
Peter Gabriel will always have a special place in my heart. More special than Greg Lake's. In fact, Lake doesn't even have a spot in my heart reserved.
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crimhead
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: October 10 2006 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 19236 |
Posted: January 01 2013 at 00:36 | |||
Giant Hogweed is avenged.
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