Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
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Points: 2720
Posted: January 17 2012 at 05:44
I have this way of looking at it:
I find that the (classic) VdGG studio albums and the first 6 Hammill solo albums are one body of work, preferably heard in order, which would then be:
Aerosol Grey Machine The Least we can Do is Wave to Each Other H to He Who Am the Only One Fool’s Mate Pawn Hearts Over Chameleon in the Shadow of the Night The Silent Corner and the Empty Stage In Camera Nadir’s Big Chance Godbluff Still Life World Record The Quiet Zone - The Pleasure Dome
So for me personally the first actual PH solo album is The Future Now.
I can't vote on this because each one of those PH albums above is essencial.
And although I'm a Graaf and Hammill fan, I don't think any of the PH albums after and including the Future Now are really essential. I always found them to be a weak echo of the VdGG that went before and never got anywhere near what they achieved as a unit. Perhaps not the general point of PH's output, but it's what I was looking for.
Joined: November 16 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 864
Posted: January 17 2012 at 07:02
npjnpj wrote:
I have this way of looking at it:
I find that the (classic) VdGG studio albums and the first 6 Hammill solo albums are one body of work, preferably heard in order, which would then be:
Aerosol Grey Machine The Least we can Do is Wave to Each Other H to He Who Am the Only One Fool’s Mate Pawn Hearts Over Chameleon in the Shadow of the Night The Silent Corner and the Empty Stage In Camera Nadir’s Big Chance Godbluff Still Life World Record The Quiet Zone - The Pleasure Dome
Over would actually come after World Record (Chameleon comes after Pawn Hearts).
While I disagree with your assessment about any PH albums not being essential after and including The Future Now (I personally feel that the coupling of Future Now / pH7 is as worthwhile as anything before... they're all 'the Charisma years'), I can see where you're coming from with the 'one body of work' outlook for PH's solo albums during the VdGG era. For me, though, it's the 70's in general where Hammill was beyond brilliant. And even the early 80's w/A Black Box, Sitting Targets, and the K-Group albums... all extremely worthwhile. What a run! From the late 60's to the mid-80's -- every album a singular artistic success. Very few artists can boast such a run, especially given that PH released (incl. VdGG) around 22 or 23 albums in that period.
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
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Points: 2720
Posted: January 17 2012 at 07:52
Woops, the order was screwed up, sorry.
I agree with your assessment of the brilliant run of albums, but at the same time I still don't find them essential. The problem here might be that we differ on the word 'essential' (to what or whom), lacking a general definition of the term.
If my CD collection got destroyed or stolen, I'd replace the albums from my list immediately, but I don't think I'd bother replacing the other PH albums, at least not for quite a while.
I think that what bothers me most about them is that I have to be in the right mood to be able to listen to them, whereas I can always play and enjoy a VdGG album. Most of his later output I see as being too whiney, and even the run of good late 70s and early 80s output suffers from bad production and (worse) inept instrumentation and playing. Not all of it, but a lot.
Whiney is OK in small doses, but not over several albums and over several years, even if it does go under the guise of deep philosophical thought (This applies mainly to his guitar only or keyboard only albums). Privately the guy is supposed to be quite cheerful, but then again I suppose he'd have to be or he'd have committed suicide a long time ago.
VdGG material can be quite dismal at times, indeed a lot of times and herein lies a lot of its appeal, but it also all contains an abundance of contrast which his solo output would largely lack. Additionally, his decision to release a lot of albums without any rhythm section at all is a big mistake in my eyes.
I admire him for sticking to his guns for such a long time though, but the decision to reform VdGG was the best thing he could possibly do, for himself and for us.
Joined: October 24 2007
Location: Netherlands
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Points: 2505
Posted: January 17 2012 at 08:39
I do agree that the musicianship on a lot of Peter Hammill's albums is lacking a professional attitude. The rhythms are often unstable, the guitars by Hammill himself often sound a bit out of pitch and the production of some albums isn't always too pleasant. It would have been nice if Peter Hammill would have had a network of professional musicians to help him record his songs. Still the pure energy and 'realness' of Hammill his style keeps impressing me (over time).
Joined: November 16 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 864
Posted: January 17 2012 at 10:08
npjnpj wrote:
Woops, the order was screwed up, sorry.
I agree with your assessment of the brilliant run of albums, but at the same time I still don't find them essential. The problem here might be that we differ on the word 'essential' (to what or whom), lacking a general definition of the term.
If my CD collection got destroyed or stolen, I'd replace the albums from my list immediately, but I don't think I'd bother replacing the other PH albums, at least not for quite a while.
I think that what bothers me most about them is that I have to be in the right mood to be able to listen to them, whereas I can always play and enjoy a VdGG album. Most of his later output I see as being too whiney, and even the run of good late 70s and early 80s output suffers from bad production and (worse) inept instrumentation and playing. Not all of it, but a lot.
Whiney is OK in small doses, but not over several albums and over several years, even if it does go under the guise of deep philosophical thought (This applies mainly to his guitar only or keyboard only albums). Privately the guy is supposed to be quite cheerful, but then again I suppose he'd have to be or he'd have committed suicide a long time ago.
VdGG material can be quite dismal at times, indeed a lot of times and herein lies a lot of its appeal, but it also all contains an abundance of contrast which his solo output would largely lack. Additionally, his decision to release a lot of albums without any rhythm section at all is a big mistake in my eyes.
I admire him for sticking to his guns for such a long time though, but the decision to reform VdGG was the best thing he could possibly do, for himself and for us.
All fair enough! VdGG had better production values (even when they produced themselves in the mid-latter part of the 70's). Hammill's later solo (i.e. late 70's, early 80's) albums would have sounded more 'accomplished' if he didn't play the drums or guitars himself. Yet, it's the very organic nature of those albums that I find appealing. One critic of the time commented that it's as if an artist entered an attic full of junk and, through his creativity, put it all together and came up with something unique and special. So, with that sort of take on it, I can get past the clunkiness of execution. And anyway, from Enter K ('82) through The Margin ('85) he had the K Group going strong and they were more than accomplished musicians, obviously. But I hear what you're saying.
Joined: November 16 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 864
Posted: January 17 2012 at 10:11
friso wrote:
I do agree that the musicianship on a lot of Peter Hammill's albums is lacking a professional attitude. The rhythms are often unstable, the guitars by Hammill himself often sound a bit out of pitch and the production of some albums isn't always too pleasant. It would have been nice if Peter Hammill would have had a network of professional musicians to help him record his songs. Still the pure energy and 'realness' of Hammill his style keeps impressing me (over time).
Again, I hear you and he probably would have been more 'successful' if there was better musicianship on some of those albums. But, he did put together the K Group (w/great musicianship) and I don't think those albums were any more successful (sales-wise) than any previous efforts. Of course, with Hammill, I'm sure none of us base our love/disappointment of his work on sales!
Joined: October 24 2007
Location: Netherlands
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Points: 2505
Posted: January 18 2012 at 05:05
bucka001 wrote:
friso wrote:
I do agree that the musicianship on a lot of Peter Hammill's albums is lacking a professional attitude. The rhythms are often unstable, the guitars by Hammill himself often sound a bit out of pitch and the production of some albums isn't always too pleasant. It would have been nice if Peter Hammill would have had a network of professional musicians to help him record his songs. Still the pure energy and 'realness' of Hammill his style keeps impressing me (over time).
Again, I hear you and he probably would have been more 'successful' if there was better musicianship on some of those albums. But, he did put together the K Group (w/great musicianship) and I don't think those albums were any more successful (sales-wise) than any previous efforts. Of course, with Hammill, I'm sure none of us base our love/disappointment of his work on sales!
Yeah we tend to look at artistic success. Fully agreed upon.
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
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Points: 16432
Posted: April 26 2012 at 14:44
friso wrote:
Pick your five favorite Peter Hammill solo albums from the vinyl age. Feel free to add some words of advice, I already own 'In Camara', 'Over' and 'A Black Box' (of which I only like side 1).
I'm not sure that the choices made here are not the best ones ... Silent Corner is probably the best and most valuable of these for me, although as time goes by, I am liking Godbluff and Still Life a lot more ... where I thought that Silent Corner and Empty Space was personal, it is more angry than personal, and both Godbluff and Still Life are much more personal and interesting for me.
Out of Water has one of my favorite pieces by Peter ... "A Way Out". It's so simple ... that no one gets it! What a concept, hey?
But I can tell you that the anger in Bernina will always be there ... and I want to blow up some of these vampire bs movies with it!
Edited by moshkito - April 26 2012 at 14:50
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Joined: November 20 2006
Location: Greece
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Points: 7026
Posted: May 22 2012 at 06:24
They’re all good. Voted for:
Chameleon
Silent Corner
In Camera
A Black Box
Patience
I don’t know how I can convince you that the second half of A Black Box is a masterpiece. I will never forget when PH performed Flight single-handedly at a concert in Oslo in the 80s.
He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill)
Come on, I am dark green with envy. Flight is one of his best. However, I would also be flying on a real wing if I, say, saw the VdGG of Vital Live (naturally with Jackson!) play Flight on a stage. I think this is the strength and calibre of the best PH / VdGG big, complex prog pieces (like eg. Still Life).
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
Posted: May 29 2012 at 10:33
I only have two, Silent Corner and the Empty Stage and Chameleon in the Shadow of the Night, I love both si I voted for them regardless as they are both well worth listening too.
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