The Christian Thread

Ambient Hurricanes wrote: Geoff:  My purpose was not to define the gospel, but to critique gnosticism; if I was to put the gospel in a nutshell, I would use John 3:16 (predictably), as I just did over in the atheist/agnostic thread.  Yes, the message about the kingdom of heaven is important; a huge emphasis in the gospels is that Christ came to inaugurate God's kingdom on earth.  But it's also important to realize that the kingdom of heaven is emphasized in Matthew, while other books emphasize different things.  The Gospel has many layers, and is very deep, but it all centers around Jesus Christ and His incarnation, earthly life and ministry, death, resurrection, ascension, and second coming.

Oh, no doubt the ideas in the Bible are many layered.  However, "the kingdom of heaven is at hand" is, by definition, THE gospel.  Gospel was a word used specifically for one type of good news in the day: the news of a new Caesar.  So, "the kingdom of heaven is at hand" was quite literally a gospel message - a politically subversive one as well.  I just think it's interesting, when you think about it, because Christianity today seems to have overwhelmingly taken the attitude that this world does not matter - more than that, it's evil, so to hell with it.  But I don't think that's how God works - God cares about this creation, that he declared was "good" and he wants us to take care of it as well.  I think we're finding, these days, that a lot of the doctrines have been very distorted through the mixing of other religious views into Christianity, and this is very evident when people like Carl Medearis (just finished his fantastic book "Speaking of Jesus", which I highly recommend, though it doesn't quite get into the subjects I'm hinting at here) ask people what they think of Christianity and the responses are overwhelmingly negative - whilst the following question "what do you think of Jesus?" always has positive results.  Something went very, very wrong with our doctrine.  But those who dare to challenge it are shot down as being heretics - and yet the message they are bringing is taking hold anyways.  If you're interested in exploring deeper, I could recommend some books, but I'll warn you - they will radically challenge ideas you may have held all your life.

I am a Quaker although I am an unconventional one because in terms of Philosophy I am a Confucian and I might want to become a Christian Zoroastrian as well. So I'm technially a Conservative Christian Humanist.

MORSE - incredible on Keyboards, amazing on Guitar, brilliant at composing Prog, superb voice and he's stage personality is spot-on.  Who could expect more from an artist.  His 'messages' come across very sensibly and they are perfectly legit.  The track 'We All Need Some Light' (Transatlantic) has meaningful lyrics and a seriously kick-ass melody.  Top-shelf Prog, no doubt.  The guy can do no wrong as far as I'm concerned (and I haven't even heard much of his stuff.....).

I was brought up as a Christian in my youth, but those beliefs and values seemed to have gone out the door from my mid-teens onwards.  Neal Morse is now my saviour..........

I respect your position, I just do not believe it. If not many go through the narrow gate, then the criteria to pass through must be stringent, to know the truth you must live the truth. If you do not believe the New Testament has come down in a corrupted manner and you believe the words you read today are the words that were written in the 1st century here is something to ponder......."How can you say, 'We are wise, And the law of the Lord is with us'?  But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie" (Jer 8:8 NASB)

In luke 11:52 we are told about the Pharisees and the keys of knowledge. There is no doubt the Way was about gnosis. For instance the old outward temple, you slay animals for sacrifice.......just a sign. The new inner temple in yourself, you slay your inner animal, beastly tendencies "Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature." It would seem most of the world, myself included, are still in the "Far Country"

I wonder what happened to the original Jewish followers of Jesus. The Ebionites/Nazarenes. The Way. Branded heretics by a religion founded in Rome and presided over by an Emperor, All the talk of faith and so little of the talk of obedience. This fractured religion called Christianity with it's myriad of denominations is a long way from The Way it would seem. Grace is a gift from God, faith is a gift from God, life itself is a gift from God.

The main problem with gnosticism (and with most other heresies and false religions, in my opinion) is that it says that humans can save themselves.  That's the exact opposite of the Christian message of salvation by the grace of God, through faith in Christ Jesus (and we receive even our own faith only as a gift of God).

^It's basically gnosticism, which is a heresy that the church has combated almost since it's beginning.

The problem with the new age/new spirituality movement is that it's kind of pick and choose; essentially a make-your-own religion, which the author touched on somewhat.  At its core, it's a syncretistic spirtuality, basically a hybrid of Western and Eastern spirituality, which to me reduces its credibility somewhat, because when you really look at them, the Western and the Eastern worldviews are obviously incompatible with one another.