Feminism |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: January 27 2014 at 13:41 | ||
Well... duh.
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: January 27 2014 at 13:39 | ||
"The people who distort the message aren't to be taken note of. That is fundamental when understanding such an important movement as Feminism" That's the problem. They ARE taken note of, and that's how feminism is interpreted by many; the woman is always right and the bloke looks like a d!ck. It really doesn't matter that that is an incorrect depiction of feminism. It's lost on people. You make many points, some I have sympathy with and I'm what I would call a true feminist rather than a media feminist. My dystopian vision of the future is just an extreme case fantasy, and probably wasn't to be taken entirely seriously, but you have to admit that feminism like religion is interpreted often in ways that suits the individuals outlook and agenda. For some women it's just an excuse to act like men. There was a time when women easily held the moral high ground on behaviour. You'd never see women half naked lying in the street, p!ssed out of their minds. That was always an idiot male thing, now - in the name of equality - it's commonplace. If that's what passes as feminism even in the minds of a significant minority of women, then that is a problem. You could argue that women who seek to be equal to men in this regard lack ambition.. When it comes to equal rights, equal pay and equal opportunities based on ability rather than gender is quite obviously a no brainer, and anyone who opposes that is an obvious bigot. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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LSDisease
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 29 2008 Status: Offline Points: 494 |
Posted: January 27 2014 at 13:16 | ||
"So I guess the best solution would be to just let things be " absolutely. Let the people be free and let 'em make mistakes. They will learn. If an option is a nanny state people will never learn. Because they'll constantly expect that all their problems will be solved by the government. |
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"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: January 27 2014 at 13:06 | ||
??? So I guess the best solution would be to just let things be, so that, taking this back in time and in relation to this thread, women still couldn't vote, get paid way less than men for the same job, etc. Or, nowadays, only rich people should be able to get higher education so they could get even richer while not rich people are stuck without an education. So that's the whole idea?? You are not even saying "the state does not have to be the solution but the market will come up with answers to help the needy". No. That would be an actual idea. You are just saying that "life isn't fair and you won't change it" and that "ALL attempts to make it more fair create poverty"... ALL, so there are no exceptions, at any level... I don;t care what experience you had with the Stasi or whether your life under Honecker was terrible (which it probably was, nobody denies the disaster of the DDR and marxism-leninism) but to use that as an excuse to reject ANY attempt at reducing life's normal unfairness is way more than just ridiculous...
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LSDisease
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 29 2008 Status: Offline Points: 494 |
Posted: January 27 2014 at 12:59 | ||
We will never find the perfect solution so there's no use in searching for that. People who desperately want everyone to be happy end up in mental hospitals or become dictators. |
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"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: January 27 2014 at 12:46 | ||
I do not say that I want to force anyone to pay higher taxes. It would be pretty cool if everybody paid the taxes that are due but that's never going to happen either. There is no perfect ideology, I do not advocate socialism nor do I advocate capitalism, we will never learn to stop vacillating between two extremes of unworkable ideologies so that's what we're destined to keep repeating ad infinitum. As I said before, unfair does not come into it, fair is relative. A fair system would be a system that maximised the personal "happiness" for the maximum number of people - and that's a pipe-dream in anyone's ideology.
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LSDisease
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 29 2008 Status: Offline Points: 494 |
Posted: January 27 2014 at 12:25 | ||
I understand you're happy to pay higher taxes but it's your decision. Many people won't agree with you. But what you say, you want to force them to pay higher taxes? That's unfair. That's socialism. |
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"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"
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Ambient Hurricanes
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 25 2011 Location: internet Status: Offline Points: 2549 |
Posted: January 27 2014 at 12:25 | ||
I just prefer not to use the term "feminism" for what I think because of the negative connotations it has attached to it due to the radical wing appropriating the term, because of my differences with many feminists in what I think about traditional gender roles, and because I don't like the etymological connotations of the word, I far prefer, when identifying my own beliefs, to say that I support equality, rather than using a word that etymologically if not literally means "woman-ist." I like to paint in broad strokes. |
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I love dogs, I've always loved dogs
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: January 27 2014 at 12:19 | ||
You have a strange interpretation of the world "socialism" and an even stranger understanding of how it works. However nothing I can say will ever fix that.
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LSDisease
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 29 2008 Status: Offline Points: 494 |
Posted: January 27 2014 at 11:30 | ||
Life isn't fair and you won't change it. All attepmts to make it more fair create poverty and financial mess. Socialists do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them. "If schools were privately owned I would not have had the education" Milton Friedman once said "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch". Your parents payed for your education in taxes. That's how it works. And it's even worse cos normally you'd have to pay only the teachers. Now you also pay for all those ministers of education and other bureaucrats. So do you smell the difference? |
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"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
Posted: January 27 2014 at 11:26 | ||
*said in Macho Man Randy Savage's voice* Edit: OOOoooooooh YYYYEEeeeeeeaaaaahhh. Edited by stonebeard - January 27 2014 at 11:28 |
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AlexDOM
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 02 2011 Location: Indianapolis Status: Offline Points: 775 |
Posted: January 27 2014 at 11:19 | ||
I was at a Bible study last night and the topic of Christian feminism was brought up. Don't know what it all entails, but interesting concept. Don't have a valid opinion on it since I do not know much about it.
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: January 27 2014 at 11:17 | ||
It is far from fair, if you think it is fair then you have a strange interpretation of the word "fair". Life isn't fair, but it is better to make it more fair than less fair. If schools were privately owned I would not have had the education I currently benefit from. That is a simple fact of economics and social status - by virtue of which parental unit I was born into would determine whether I had a University education or not, my parents lived from pay-cheque to pay-cheque, they could never afford to pay for my education. I'm not claiming that to be fair or unfair, it just "is a fact of life", the notion of "fair" is not a determining factor, I am grateful for a state education, and since I come from a time of student grants rather than student loans, I am grateful that it was free state education, and because of that I am happy to pay taxes to fund the education of this generation and the next. Fair is relative.
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LSDisease
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 29 2008 Status: Offline Points: 494 |
Posted: January 27 2014 at 10:20 | ||
Read without prejudice
http://www.frontpagemag.com/2011/spyridon-mitsotakis/the-marxist-roots-of-feminism/ Edited by LSDisease - January 27 2014 at 10:20 |
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"Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!"
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: January 27 2014 at 10:10 | ||
The problem here started when someone did the ridiculous thing of comparing feminism with marxism....
And to say that feminism in itself is bad because there's (granted) quite a few feminist bigots who have taken it to a level of hate and stupidity without comparison is like saying all people who have religious beliefs are idiots and bigots because the Westboro Church exists...
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: January 27 2014 at 10:10 | ||
Listening through the talk, there seems to be some mashing up of sexual harassment/abuse and gender equality? idk, I am a bit tired after a hectic workday so maybe it's my fault for not concentrating enough and missing some detail (but if so, please fill up the blanks for me, sorry?). Why I ask is the latter is a much broader issue and some aspects of it are easier to address. We could sensitise corporations to compensate two equally valuable employees the same, irrespective of their gender. We could address, gradually and over a long period of time albeit, the issue of parents not sending the girl child to school in many third world countries. We can push inch by inch for greater representation of women in many walks of life, particularly in the part that is walled by the proverbial glass ceiling. But after all this is done, I wonder would the issue of sexual harassment really have been addressed. Because THAT is not as simple as just telling men to grow some morals and shape up. As long as there are criminals, there will be molesters and rapists. What can be done to address the unequal power equation, physically, between men and women is the question and that is imo at the heart of sexual harassment. The men who harass women do so because they feel they are much stronger and can get away with it. I don't know that there's much that can really be done about it. There can be law enforcement after the fact but that would at best be a deterrent. It cannot eradicate it. Which means there is no way to PREVENT the shame and humiliation a woman somewhere in the planet is subjected to everyday if not every hour.
Edited by rogerthat - January 27 2014 at 10:22 |
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Luna
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 28 2010 Location: Funky Town Status: Offline Points: 12794 |
Posted: January 27 2014 at 10:06 | ||
I'm pessimistic and bitter. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23104 |
Posted: January 27 2014 at 09:54 | ||
^Well you two guys aren't exactly helping either.
For future purposes, and this goes for everybody interested in posting in here: please stick with the program. This is an already extremely sensitive area of discussion, and we certainly don't need folks dropping arbitrary parallels to communism vs capitalism/socialism whatever you wanna call it. If you dig talking politics, then by all means drop by this fine thread http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40226&PID=4912530#4912530 If you're interested in something a little more specific - ie the carriage pulling the horse theory, then there's always the libertarian corner http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=85372&PID=4931869#4931869 That's about it - I trust we're all adults............ yeah well - even I didn't believe in that last bit.
Edited by Guldbamsen - January 27 2014 at 10:08 |
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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Horizons
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 20 2011 Location: Somewhere Else Status: Offline Points: 16952 |
Posted: January 27 2014 at 09:23 | ||
Genesis and Yes threads only
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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smartpatrol
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 15 2012 Location: My Bedroom Status: Offline Points: 14169 |
Posted: January 27 2014 at 09:16 | ||
i knew this thread would be a disaster
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