Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Uriah Heep and the critics
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedUriah Heep and the critics

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
M27Barney View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 3136
Direct Link To This Post Topic: Uriah Heep and the critics
    Posted: May 07 2014 at 03:56
A good teacher is one who can teach people (successfully) who don't want to learn!!
Teaching people with a thirst for education is a lot easier!!!
I like to think that I can judge a fine specimen of Symphonic prog and spot a blooper!!! I reckon that outside my thin slice of specialisation my opinions are a lot less meaningful and are loaded with opinionated bias....I accept that as a norm for most people judging stuff from a genre that they don't particularly like...
Back to Top
Andrea Cortese View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 05 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 4411
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2014 at 06:41
Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

"Remember: those who can, do; those who can't, teach." 

I "did" both (researched and taught) and I can tell you, the teaching is by far the harder thing to do well.

I look at the papers I published and wonder what use it really did. Is radiative transfer in stellar atmospheres and solar magnetohydrodynamics REALLY going to change anyone's life?

I look at the students I taught, see their achievements since and, truthfully, I get far more satisfaction out of that. That's why, towards the end of my career, I did less and less research and more and more teaching, but that meant I wasn't earning my corn as a department member (not enough research grants), so I retired before I was pushed.

But critics are often bitter people who failed at both and like to denigrate those who succeeded. Heep succeeded despite the critics and are one of the longest extant bands around with an enviable (though admittedly a bit patchy) discography. Sales of around 20m albums mean someone likes them even if the critics don't.

Good point.

Absolutely true. Too often critics are not a constructive tool. In fact, I usually avoid them for my purchases.

Back to Top
Hercules View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2014 at 08:53
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

"Remember: those who can, do; those who can't, teach." 

I "did" both (researched and taught) and I can tell you, the teaching is by far the harder thing to do well.

I look at the papers I published and wonder what use it really did. Is radiative transfer in stellar atmospheres and solar magnetohydrodynamics REALLY going to change anyone's life?

I look at the students I taught, see their achievements since and, truthfully, I get far more satisfaction out of that. That's why, towards the end of my career, I did less and less research and more and more teaching, but that meant I wasn't earning my corn as a department member (not enough research grants), so I retired before I was pushed.

But critics are often bitter people who failed at both and like to denigrate those who succeeded. Heep succeeded despite the critics and are one of the longest extant bands around with an enviable (though admittedly a bit patchy) discography. Sales of around 20m albums mean someone likes them even if the critics don't.
I married a teacher so I know how much work goes into it, hence my quoting Shaw and putting it in quote-marks rather than simply stating it uncredited. Whether that is actually harder than doing is difficult to ascertain and it must depend on the individual and those being taught to a significant degree, as well as the subject itself. Of course if you don't know your subject you can neither do nor teach, but anyone can criticise.

There are many bands that succeed in spite of what the critics say, Heep, BJH, The Enid and even ELP to name but four.

Since retiring, I've worked in schools to raise standards in maths on a part-time basis. Believe you me, secondary school teaching is far more demanding than lecturing. I lectured about 150 hours per year at most (typically 5 hours per week in term time) plus 3 hours of tutorials per week, and that was an exceptionally high teaching workload for the department. Most maths teachers in secondary schools teach 20+ hours per week AND have behavioural issues to contend with!

And it requires training, unlike being a critic.


Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2014 at 08:26
Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

"Remember: those who can, do; those who can't, teach." 

I "did" both (researched and taught) and I can tell you, the teaching is by far the harder thing to do well.

I look at the papers I published and wonder what use it really did. Is radiative transfer in stellar atmospheres and solar magnetohydrodynamics REALLY going to change anyone's life?

I look at the students I taught, see their achievements since and, truthfully, I get far more satisfaction out of that. That's why, towards the end of my career, I did less and less research and more and more teaching, but that meant I wasn't earning my corn as a department member (not enough research grants), so I retired before I was pushed.

But critics are often bitter people who failed at both and like to denigrate those who succeeded. Heep succeeded despite the critics and are one of the longest extant bands around with an enviable (though admittedly a bit patchy) discography. Sales of around 20m albums mean someone likes them even if the critics don't.
I married a teacher so I know how much work goes into it, hence my quoting Shaw and putting it in quote-marks rather than simply stating it uncredited. Whether that is actually harder than doing is difficult to ascertain and it must depend on the individual and those being taught to a significant degree, as well as the subject itself. Of course if you don't know your subject you can neither do nor teach, but anyone can criticise.

There are many bands that succeed in spite of what the critics say, Heep, BJH, The Enid and even ELP to name but four.
What?
Back to Top
Hercules View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2014 at 07:01
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

"Remember: those who can, do; those who can't, teach." 

I "did" both (researched and taught) and I can tell you, the teaching is by far the harder thing to do well.

I look at the papers I published and wonder what use it really did. Is radiative transfer in stellar atmospheres and solar magnetohydrodynamics REALLY going to change anyone's life?

I look at the students I taught, see their achievements since and, truthfully, I get far more satisfaction out of that. That's why, towards the end of my career, I did less and less research and more and more teaching, but that meant I wasn't earning my corn as a department member (not enough research grants), so I retired before I was pushed.

But critics are often bitter people who failed at both and like to denigrate those who succeeded. Heep succeeded despite the critics and are one of the longest extant bands around with an enviable (though admittedly a bit patchy) discography. Sales of around 20m albums mean someone likes them even if the critics don't.
Back to Top
The Dark Elf View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13397
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2014 at 16:39
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I'm not a reviewer, I'm not a critic, I rarely offer my opinion on a band...

Is it because, perhaps, aiding a performer wounded by critics amounts to only a band-aid?

...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2014 at 16:24
I'm not a reviewer, I'm not a critic, I rarely offer my opinion on a band and I seldom give recommendations. I'm more than happy to talk about a band however. Tongue
What?
Back to Top
dr wu23 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20702
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2014 at 15:03
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Ermm you could always rewind back to page one and re-read the thread from the beginning if you need to refresh your memory.
 
You know...I did that , but after reading your analysis I still couldn't tell  if you liked them or not.
Wink
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2014 at 14:04
Ermm you could always rewind back to page one and re-read the thread from the beginning if you need to refresh your memory.
What?
Back to Top
dr wu23 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20702
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2014 at 13:25
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

^ and those who would criticise them of course... and those who critique those who criticise the critics... and them that offer criticism on those who critique those who criticise the critics... and those who are critical of those who offer criticism on those who critique those who criticise the critics... even they have their critics.

In the words of George Bernard ... "Remember: those who can, do; those who can't, teach."  (and those who can do neither, talk bollocks and become critics).
Uh...ok then....but what are your thoughts on Uriah Heep..?
 
Wink
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2014 at 19:14
^ and those who would criticise them of course... and those who critique those who criticise the critics... and them that offer criticism on those who critique those who criticise the critics... and those who are critical of those who offer criticism on those who critique those who criticise the critics... even they have their critics.

In the words of George Bernard ... "Remember: those who can, do; those who can't, teach."  (and those who can do neither, talk bollocks and become critics).
What?
Back to Top
Chris S View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2014 at 18:44
^ absolutely right, subjectively speaking of course
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18698
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2014 at 16:54
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Music critics talk bollocks. End of.
 
We have to make sure we include the ones at ProgArchives, you know?
 
Confused
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
Kentucky_Hawkwindage View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 15 2014
Location: Hardinsburg,Ky
Status: Offline
Points: 733
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2014 at 16:51
Apparently Heep will always be an "underdog band". But every dog does have it's day. I'm a fan of underdogs,as i consider myself an underdog.I occasionally do have my day though.
"Nobody's Gonna Change My World That's Something To Unreal"   Lyrics that i live my life by-from Black Sabbath's Technical Ecstasy's track You Won't Change Me
Back to Top
Andrea Cortese View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 05 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 4411
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2014 at 16:31
Acrimony against Uriah Heep is still alive and kicking. This is the band's review in the Scaruffi's History of Rock (scaruffi.com):


With Black Sabbath, Uriah Heep were the purveyors of the "dark" subgenre of hard-rock at its inception. They were technically incompetent and stylistically irrelevant, but nonetheless managed to last forever.[\FONT]
Back to Top
flellis View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie


Joined: May 19 2013
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 25
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2014 at 12:37
For all its lineup changes, its pretty consistent. The only era that didn't work for me was the John Sloman, who sounded like Glenn Hughes(wrong singer for Heep) era of "Conquest". But all the other guys worked as Lawton, Goalby and current guy Bernie Shaw.  Albums varies, but you can find a good song here or there. A compilation of all Heep stuff is the best way to get an idea of the post-Byron era.
Back to Top
Kentucky_Hawkwindage View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 15 2014
Location: Hardinsburg,Ky
Status: Offline
Points: 733
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2014 at 16:18
I recall Rockarama i think as being the best track on Equater(i think thats the title).I really need to check out what came after & i'll do it when i get time.

Edited by Kentucky_Hawkwindage - April 29 2014 at 16:19
"Nobody's Gonna Change My World That's Something To Unreal"   Lyrics that i live my life by-from Black Sabbath's Technical Ecstasy's track You Won't Change Me
Back to Top
Andrea Cortese View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 05 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 4411
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2014 at 16:15
Equator is from 1985... is the lowest point of the band's 80s.

not completely bad though. The closer Night of the Wolf is great!!!
Back to Top
Kentucky_Hawkwindage View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 15 2014
Location: Hardinsburg,Ky
Status: Offline
Points: 733
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2014 at 16:08
Yes-i as well am a big fan of Abominog & Head First,i have Equater on LP but if i recall it wasn't up to parr with the previous 2 i mentioned.I kinda lost track of Heep after Equater. Maybe i should check into that time period that came after as well and up to present.
"Nobody's Gonna Change My World That's Something To Unreal"   Lyrics that i live my life by-from Black Sabbath's Technical Ecstasy's track You Won't Change Me
Back to Top
Andrea Cortese View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 05 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 4411
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2014 at 06:42
^^^

Yeah, there are many gems in UH's huge discography.

I like almost all the albums released by the band.

Abominog from 1982 is particularly strong with a refreshed sound. The following year's Head First is good too (Goalby was a great vocalist).

Thumbs up also for their recent Wake the Sleeper and Into the Wild.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.145 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.