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Joined: May 27 2008
Location: Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 463
Posted: June 17 2014 at 15:37
After I heard "Beelzebubba" from James LaBrie's Mullmuzzler project, I couldn't take the man seriously anymore. He became a cartoon to me. Not because of what he was saying, it was just such a stupid and childish piece of hateful writing. And, the trombone made it even more ridiculous. There's a reason many don't care about prog lyrics, and it's because a lot of good bands write them very badly.
I don't have issues with general political themes being explored in music. I did, and still do, find Zappa to be both funny as hell and kind of uncomfortably embarrassing, depending on how far he went with his humiliation lyrics. Sometimes it was just hateful, instead of pointed.
Can't say I've heard much that's very specific in its meaning, or representing any ideology. I think I'd prefer not to. Music is an escape for me. And politics used to get me pretty worked up. I've given up trying to figure out who the "good guys" are (to me) anymore and just keep my head down and out of it. So, I guess what I'm saying is that I'd like to keep those two things separated as much as I can.
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20525
Posted: June 17 2014 at 13:34
moshkito wrote:
SteveG wrote:
...I agree with you on all counts. Not all prog bands could pull it off, but enough could. I was a bit tongue-in-cheek about Zappa's views which are not relevant to the discussion.
Considering the guy even went to Washington DC, and you can see it on the tube ... that's a rather strange observation. Frank was not the politically correct hippocrit of an artist today, and was pretty straight forward with his opinions, many times, not just once.
But we love Overnight Sensation, not anything else!
Zappa's political views will always be relevant (regardless if you agree with them or not). But since he can no longer voice new political views in music, I feel that removes him from the topic of the discussion. My apologies for being vague.
Joined: November 20 2006
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 7026
Posted: June 17 2014 at 12:20
Dean wrote:
If Peter Hammill and/or Peter Gabriel had sung songs in honour of P W Botha instead of Steve Biko would we like them as much?
No, we wouldn’t. Because they wouldn’t be Gabriel or Hammill if they did.
I
remember that Hammill once said he didn’t think a song was the right
medium for politics. He preferred to discuss philosophical thoughts in
his lyrics instead. Even so, he made A Motorbike in Africa (about apartheid) and, much later, Every Bloody Emperor (about
the Western invasion of Iraq, written just before it happened).
Especially the last one is a favourite of mine, and today we can see the
consequences (not of the song but the invasion) with ISIL taking
control in the area.
He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill)
Joined: June 17 2014
Location: The Dreamlands
Status: Offline
Points: 49
Posted: June 17 2014 at 12:10
Wanorak wrote:
I personally enjoy a good political song ala Forgotten Sons and Gaza. I though Gaza was great because it focused on the effect the Israeli/Palestinian conflict had on ordinary people. I think a lot of times we don't address world problems and just hide our heads in the sand and ignore them. Bravo to Marillion for saying something important with Gaza.
Indeed. Music can be an excellent medium for sociopolitical commentary when it's done right. Political songs can fall flat sometimes though... Dream Theater's "The Great Debate" is the perfect example of politics in prog gone horribly wrong. I still cringe every time I listen to it.
Edited by Archeus - June 17 2014 at 12:25
What about dogs? What about cats? What about chickens?
Joined: June 23 2005
Location: The Tardis
Status: Offline
Points: 8543
Posted: June 17 2014 at 11:38
Gully Foyle wrote:
I doubt I would appreciate a 6-part epic on how cutting taxes creates growth (to fit in with the 'high fantasy' aspect of some prog)
I think that's the theme of the next Magma trilogy. I can deal with most political lyrics, no matter where they fall. They don't have to be left-wing for me to enjoy it (I enjoy many of Rush's lyrics for example). Nor do I only like anti-religious lyrics (although I agree with the comment about Neal Morse - his are too over-the-top preachy religious), but Yes, The Flower Kings, Iona, etc. all have spiritual themes in their lyrics which in no way offend me.
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
Joined: December 26 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Status: Offline
Points: 350
Posted: June 17 2014 at 11:06
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
As long as it's left wing and anti religion, I don't think I could listen to Teabagging God Fearing stuff.
Truer words have never been said...for me at least...I can't even deal with Neal Morse...
There are some other examples...3rd Degree's The Long Division springs to mind, as does GG's The Power and The Glory, Tull's Under Wraps (more geopolitics than 'political'), plenty of Floyd...
There is a difference between writng and singing about politics, or philosophy, and being 'political'
I doubt I would appreciate a 6-part epic on how cutting taxes creates growth (to fit in with the 'high fantasy' aspect of some prog), but a study in political corruption or personal political journeys might be of interest
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20500
Posted: June 17 2014 at 10:14
So who's going to add the politics to prog music?
If the artist wants to add some political lyrics...they will. Personally as long as the music is good and the lyrics not too silly I don't care what the 'politics' are or if they are opposite to mine.
Cream had something to say on this:
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 16432
Posted: June 17 2014 at 10:04
SteveG wrote:
... I agree with you on all counts. Not all prog bands could pull it off, but enough could. I was a bit tongue-in-cheek about Zappa's views which are not relevant to the discussion.
Considering the guy even went to Washington DC, and you can see it on the tube ... that's a rather strange observation. Frank was not the politically correct hippocrit of an artist today, and was pretty straight forward with his opinions, many times, not just once.
But we love Overnight Sensation, not anything else!
Edited by moshkito - June 17 2014 at 10:04
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 16432
Posted: June 17 2014 at 09:55
SteveG wrote:
When Marillion released their album titled Sounds That Can't Be Made last year, it contained the controversial track Gaza which addressed one of the long standing Middle Eastern controversies. With more than ten years to reflect on the events of 9/11, two Gulf wars and world wide economic and social divides; would you like to see more of these topics addressed in the lyrics of Prog music songs (even if they are controversial) or should Prog music remain an escapist or purely aesthetic medium devoid of any social and political commentary?
There is not a whole lot more political commentary than 21st Century Schizoid Man!
And PG, in "Selling England by the Pound" took his shots at the PM ... !!!
Politics, in many ways, is one of the biggest front runners of a revolution and idealism that helps create a lot of art, and that includes music. If you look at the history of art (painting) it even has a "Nationalistic" section under "Romantic Art" in the 1800's.
It all depends on how well/much we want to learn from it. The French Revolution is known to have helped hugely with the development of Gothic Literature, though it had its start a bit earlier with Horace Walpole, but the blood running in the streets of Paris appears to have been heard much further around the world, no to mention its arts, specially literature.
So, to your answer, yeah ... without it, I think that a lot of us would find things rather mundane and spirit-less and not worth fighting for. I imagine that these have to be "universal" themes (I hate using academic terms!!!!!), so that we all can see it and such!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Joined: January 15 2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 160
Posted: June 17 2014 at 09:37
I'm not usually a political person. However, I am in favor of the least amount of government interference as humanly possible. I guess you could call me a traditional conservative. Thank God that our constitutional rights allow us to create art about anything we want to. I think people should write music about anything that moves them.
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 64661
Posted: June 17 2014 at 03:44
^ That begs an interesting point about experience and its importance to writing, whether lyrics or prose. If you don't live it, there won't be much to write about. It's why I think guys like Hemingway dove into the abyss; it wasn't macho, he needed material.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
If we disregard the ramifications of digital media and
the internet with regards marketing, distribution and sales (yes I know,
it's a huge ask)
was there any other industry in the developed world hitherto that
epitomized the wet dream of capitalism so perfectly as the music
industry? It always makes me smile to listen to terminally 'right on' luvvies
like Weller, Strummer, Costello, Waters, Wyatt, Bragg et al rail
against a system that if dismantled would return them to the obscurity
and poverty they strove so hard to escape and profess to abhor while
sealing their mouthpiece for lucrative dissent forever. If musicians were credibly serious about having a politicised agenda, they might stand for election, write manifestos rather than triple concept albums, do volunteer charity work or join one of the main political parties as a foot-soldier. Yes, they can compose a soundtrack to their activities by all means but such ain't a substitute for action. Politics is action, activism, doing stuff, really un-sexy, unglamorous, exhausting, tedious door to door drudgery and sometimes dangerous sh*t, not what we're doing here (myself included and just as guilty) - sitting around talking, doing squat.
Joined: June 20 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 7946
Posted: June 16 2014 at 22:09
Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:
As long as it's left wing and anti religion, I don't think I could listen to Teabagging God Fearing stuff.
SteveG wrote:
...or should Prog music remain an escapist or purely aesthetic medium devoid of any social and political commentary?
Escapism is sometimes a great vehicle for metaphor, political or otherwise. It's also very effective in avoiding biases that listeners may bring with them. Who brings any personal prejudices to Get 'Em Out By Friday ??
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20525
Posted: June 16 2014 at 19:48
[QUOTE from Progosopher]People have always written songs about politics, Prog is no exception. What do you mean by politics? The Roman Emperor Tiberius once stated "It dosen't matter what I think politics means. It only matters as to what the people think politics means!" Perhaps you should reflect on this statement o' philosopher. It might help you in your long search for the truth.
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Should politics return to Prog music?
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moshkito wrote:
)
was there any other industry in the developed world hitherto that
epitomized the wet dream of capitalism so perfectly as the music
industry? It always makes me smile to listen to terminally 'right on' luvvies
like Weller, Strummer, Costello, Waters, Wyatt, Bragg et al rail
against a system that if dismantled would return them to the obscurity
and poverty they strove so hard to escape and profess to abhor while
sealing their mouthpiece for lucrative dissent forever. If musicians were credibly serious about having a politicised agenda, they might stand for election, write manifestos rather than triple concept albums, do volunteer charity work or join one of the main political parties as a foot-soldier. Yes, they can compose a soundtrack to their activities by all means but such ain't a substitute for action. Politics is action, activism, doing stuff, really un-sexy, unglamorous, exhausting, tedious door to door drudgery and sometimes dangerous sh*t, not what we're doing here (myself included and just as guilty) - sitting around talking, doing squat.
The Roman Emperor Tiberius once stated "It dosen't matter what I think politics means. It only matters as to what the people think politics means!" Perhaps you should reflect on this statement o' philosopher. It might help you in your long search for the truth. 
