Marillion's "Brave"

Roj wrote: I'm just not a big fan of Fish, great stage presence but vocally not my bag at all.On the other hand, h is just outstanding, he has it all.  He has probably the most emotional voice in prog and a great stage presence to boot.  He has so many amazing vocal performances in Marillion's catalogue which send shivers down my spine - Ocean Cloud, TSE, Out of This World to name a few.  I'll concede it took me time to appreciate Hogarth, but once he clicked - boom!  I was exactly the same with Jon Anderson many years ago too .Basically I prefer Hogarth Marillion over Fish Marillion by the largest possible distance you could imagine (and I saw the band with Fish several times before they got the EMI deal).

Pretty much me here...Did not take me much time to enjoy his style of delivery. I struggled for years with Peter Hamill, still do but the music can pull the attention away from that voice of his...ughh!

In general I don't have any problem with Fish's voice.

Roj wrote: I'm just not a big fan of Fish, great stage presence but vocally not my bag at all. On the other hand, h is just outstanding, he has it all.  He has probably the most emotional voice in prog and a great stage presence to boot.  He has so many amazing vocal performances in Marillion's catalogue which send shivers down my spine - Ocean Cloud, TSE, Out of This World to name a few.  I'll concede it took me time to appreciate Hogarth, but once he clicked - boom!  I was exactly the same with Jon Anderson many years ago too . Basically I prefer Hogarth Marillion over Fish Marillion by the largest possible distance you could imagine (and I saw the band with Fish several times before they got the EMI deal).

Catcher10 wrote: I enjoy both vocalists, but prefer H by a decent amount. I think both of them fit the mold during each period...very well. I don't think H would have been as good in the "Fish" era and vice versa... I was watching Brave on Bluray the other night and my wife commented she thought H was a very good vocalist, a bit weird but good. I think the lipstick and eye-liner during the Brave show freaked her out I explained he is just playing the album out..but he is very expressive for sure. He is very melodic and has a lot of detail and subtleties to his voice. Just listen to Memory of Water on TSE, pretty intense and very soulful, bluesy influenced. I like H

Billy Pilgrim wrote: Mirror Image wrote: I've changed my mind about how I feel about Marillion. One of the major problems I have with them is their lack of a strong vocalist and the second problem I have either Hogarth or Fish just sing way too much. They never let music guide them and instrumental passages, in many cases, are plagued by either Hogarth's or Fish's constant warbling. These vocalists just can't keep their traps shut long enough for anything good to happen in the music. They're a distraction and I think this is why I think they'll never reach the heights of Genesis, Yes, King Crimson, or Pink Floyd. Steve Rothery is a great player, but I always wondered how he would fare in a different band or even maybe with a vocalist who has a better timbre and who understands the importance of instrumental passages. But I realize many people like their music and that's certainly fine but I've always wondered why I couldn't completely enjoy this band and the problems always come back to Hogarth or Fish. There's a time and a place for vocals, but Hogarth/Fish completely ruin so many good Rothery solos, but solos aren't enough to save this band's music. It's just not that impressive to me.  The exact reason I enjoy there music, Hogarths voice, and excellent lyrics, are the star of the show. Kinda nice to mix things up with some vocal driven music every now and then. What have you listened to from them, both eras?

I've changed my mind about how I feel about Marillion. One of the major problems I have with them is their lack of a strong vocalist and the second problem I have either Hogarth or Fish just sing way too much. They never let music guide them and instrumental passages, in many cases, are plagued by either Hogarth's or Fish's constant warbling. These vocalists just can't keep their traps shut long enough for anything good to happen in the music. They're a distraction and I think this is why I think they'll never reach the heights of Genesis, Yes, King Crimson, or Pink Floyd. Steve Rothery is a great player, but I always wondered how he would fare in a different band or even maybe with a vocalist who has a better timbre and who understands the importance of instrumental passages. But I realize many people like their music and that's certainly fine but I've always wondered why I couldn't completely enjoy this band and the problems always come back to Hogarth or Fish. There's a time and a place for vocals, but Hogarth/Fish completely ruin so many good Rothery solos, but solos aren't enough to save this band's music. It's just not that impressive to me. 

Edited by Mirror Image - August 26 2014 at 22:13

progbethyname wrote: Mirror Image wrote: I'd love if Marillion got someone to release a 5.1 surround sound mix of this album. If any album truly deserves 5.1, it's Brave. Just think of all the effects and different parts we would finally be able to hear in a song like Goodbye To All That or the title track? I get goosebumps just thinking about the possibility of something like this being released. This is a lovely thought and I share the same feelings as you. You know, it's funny how more people aren't really aware of 5.1 audio formats or home cinema/receiver/amp set ups. It's one of the very best ways to bring out the life in your music and do an album it's true justice. The 5.1 market is a niche/luxury market still! I'm sure cost and the rising technology in movie theaters have negated people to buy their own sound system for their homes. My point is I wish a 5.1 audio DVD was available and as common to buy as a regular CD. I know production costs are more to make these audio formats, but If the market was bigger we would not have scarce availability for these truly amazing formats via bit streaming. :) Prog on nonetheless. Guess we will have to settle for Dolby prologic 2 or 5 channel stereo with DSP.

I'd love the possibility of owning more 5.1 surround sound prog rock recordings. I don't have my stereo quite set up for this audio treatment yet, but I'm working on it. I have seen Blu-ray audio discs starting to be released more now. Wasn't there a Yes Close To The Edge surround mix on Blu-ray not too long ago? I think Steven Wilson (surprise!) did the surround mix.

Edited by Mirror Image - July 02 2014 at 09:41

Steven Steven where art thou Steven

Catcher10 wrote: ^ word....

HolyMoly wrote: I don't really follow Marillion (though I was into them briefly in the Fish days), but I picked up a copy of "Brave" because it had been described here as a great concept album.  The first thing I did when I got it was to read the lyric booklet, and I have to say it's a wonderful, dark set of lyrics, and a real strong story overall.   However, when I listened to it, I found the music to be kind of inconsequential.  If it's only there to serve as a background for the lyrics, then I guess it was a success, but it felt very nondescript to me.  Still glad I have it though.  It may grow on me more someday.

progbethyname wrote: richardh wrote: SteveG wrote: DJPuffyLemon wrote: I really tried liking Brave, but there are too many slow and boring moment for me to really think it is a masterpiece. After reading about all themeticulous recording and re-recording of all the individual parts, then picking out each one to try to find the most perfect take....it just seems like (and from listening to the album I get this feeling too) that Marillion tried too hard on it. They tried to make a perfect album...and although the songs are mostly all fairly good, none of them really have any punch and they (the songs) seem to convey fatigue.Putting that aside, my real beef with the album would be that EVERY SINGLE SONG is overly long. Lap of Luxury and Hard as Love could have been cut in half easily. I suppose it wouldn't have had that epic feel if each song was 3-4 minutes though.Perhaps I was not this album's intended audience though? Seeing as how my favourite song off the album is Made Again... I have to agree with you that several songs are overly long but I try to keep in mind that not everyone and his brother was releasing decent concept albums in the '90s. I wonder if it would be worth me putting up a poll pitting Brave against Subterranea? No contest in my mind. Subterranea is by far and away a superior album to me sonically speaking.