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Topic ClosedWill piracy kill off prog rock ?
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:58
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

But, folks, the problem is now that piracy is the standard, not the exception. ;-)
Not around here it isn't. You have wandered into probably the only music forum on the internet that values the musician as much as the music. Huzzah for that I say.
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Points: 2826 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:53
Spotify, spit spit spit. 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-25217353

So, I get $0.007 per complete play. It is an absolute total rip off. Described as "democratic anarchy". 10,000 complete plays on Spotify is 70 cents. 

I really should put some figures up for the non musicians here to show how bad things are...... believe it or not, it is almost impossible to make enough money from music to pay for a new instrument, let alone set up the money to do a live gig or tour.

As for "be creative"..... it doesn't work. Even if you give hundreds of free downloads away. People just say thank you very much and wait for the next free download from somewhere else, or they use whatever download platform they're on as a free radio station. 






Edited by Davesax1965 - September 23 2014 at 10:58
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Points: 350 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:51
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Well it's quite obvious. Most people downloading prog albums do not buy them afterwards. Even so called  "fans" of x band do this, and as a result of this fewer records are sold. I mean, this isn't exactly rocket scienceClown
I'm sure (I certainly hope) the bands who have something to say, in an original way, will come out on top. Granted, small teenie tiny acts, that 9 people know of worldwide, who gets their album downloaded, are probably not going to make it financially - unless it sparks a huge public success and people actually start paying money for the music. 
The people who file-share the most also spend the most money on the type of material they share as is shown in numerous studies.
One important reason why there are less cd's/lp's/other physical music containers are being sold is itunes/spotify/similar online services.
The big superstars (Madonna, Lady Gaga, etc) see less revenue because most of their albums suck so people download the singles or other few songs that sound ok, the rest gets ignored.

Music will never die because people wil always make music as we have done for at least 35000 years.
And folks can still earn a living doing music even without selling physical cd's (ad-revenue on spotify, (just keep all your copyrights instead of signing some or all away to some record company).

Be creative and think of a new, working business model for the modern age and use file sharing as a promotional tool.
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Points: 2826 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:46
But, folks, the problem is now that piracy is the standard, not the exception. ;-)
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Points: 16913 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:38
I will always opt for a physical CD I can pluck from my shelf, I just enjoy them, logical or not.  Then again, I love my mouse too, and I loathe touch screen technology.  Every time I answer a damn phone call my cheek hits the hyper sensitive screen and i push a bunch of buttons with my face.....

It's official.  I'm old.  Smile


Edited by Finnforest - September 23 2014 at 10:38

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Points: 8856 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:37
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

But Dean might be right about the Cloud thing. 
Trust me, I know stuff - I predicted the death of the computer mouse long before Apple invented the iPad. Admittedly I said that back in 1985 when touch screens were a mere figment of the imagination, but I was right.
I, too, have prescience the likes of which the world has never seen. I predicted that Steve Jobs would die— eventually.

Edited by Polymorphia - September 23 2014 at 10:39
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Points: 4807 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:36
Probably, but it's always been around in some form or another (in the '70s, albums were passed around between friends to be recorded onto cassettes).
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:31
Originally posted by Polymorphia Polymorphia wrote:

But Dean might be right about the Cloud thing. 
Trust me, I know stuff - I predicted the death of the computer mouse long before Apple invented the iPad. Admittedly I said that back in 1985 when touch screens were a mere figment of the imagination, but I was right.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:28
Originally posted by SMSM SMSM wrote:

Not if you have great labels like Esoteric making great remastering and great liner notes that make it worthwhile not to steal and buy music in a cd or vinyl format
That's the key of course - make something that people want to hold in their hands, make your product desirable.


Of course then it's not just about the music but just the packaging, however, you still need to have good music to wrap it all around.
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Points: 8856 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:27
Assuming that people are downloading prog in the first place. There are a lot of prog artists who, from a listener's standpoint, feel like they will never get out of the bandcamp sludge. There are definitely many talented musicians, but a lot of amateur-sounding artists. These days, I hear scarcely any prog that considers itself prog that could ever break out and actually, y'know, reach people. People chalk it up to "it's not accessible" or "it's not poppy," but, really, most of it just fails to connect with people on a human level.

That said, I think, in the prog community, there will always be loyal, record purchasing fans. Most prog fans like physical copies if they can afford them.

But Dean might be right about the Cloud thing. This may be raining on everyone's parade here, but I suppose you could say ownership is but a vapor. It will disappear lightening fast and prog will simply have to weather through it. But maybe (who knows?) it will make a thunderous return.
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Points: 210 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:25
Not if you have great labels like Esoteric making great remastering and great liner notes that make it worthwhile not to steal and buy music in a cd or vinyl format
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:15
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

I always suspected the Cloud idea was an elaborate trick.
Yeah, let the people who sold you the stuff look after it for you. That sounded like a really smart idea to me.
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Points: 5128 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:14
BTW I have to confess having tried some years ago (with eMule) but got quite fed up when a couple of times after downloading, say, "Camel-Stationary Traveller.zip" (or .rar) which at the speed of those days took quite a while, and after decompressing the file it was some porn video Confused
Scared for viruses too, I don't know if it may kill prog but I don't want it to kill my PC.
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Points: 2673 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:13
Maybe bands will react by making music more worthwhile to buy for those people who don't wish to. That's not to say I know how to do it.

And concert sales are still there. Concert tickets are far from free unless you know people, and I don't believe that is much different now than it was in the 70's.
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Points: 26133 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:12
I always suspected the Cloud idea was an elaborate trick.
My other avatar is a Porsche

It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.

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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:10
Piracy will disappear completely once everyone has been suckered into adopting the "cloud". You won't be able to download anything, you won't own anything, everything will be streamed and everything will be pay-per-listen. Welcome to the world of tomorrow, please form an orderly queue.
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Points: 19965 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:06
Piracy has been around as long as prog - there have been bootlegs available for years and digital piracy has been around for a while as well and it hasn't killed it off so far. Home taping didn't kill music as far as I remember either.

It doesn't help - I know for a fact that prog bands do lose a lot of sales from people uploading CDs and DVDs but I guess it has to be balanced against the number of people who may buy CDs after hearing an illegal download.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:02
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

Believe it or not, there's a lot of bands/artists, not only prog but on any genre of music, that have figured out a way to give the music for free, and still make some profit in terms of touring, selling t-shirts, hats, etc, and make a decent profit, not to become rich and wealthy, but to make a decent living.

It's quite a different world out there, compared to the last decades of the 20th century, and adjustment is necessary to survive the e-trade and it's complexities. 

Exactly. That whole world and everything is changed in the last 35-40 years.
It is actually success today that some new prog band make a money for decent living from their music, 'cause for that decent living, whatever it means, the new bands have to earning much more money than the bands in 70s.
Oh dear, that kind of carpet statement is going to need proof to back it up.
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Points: 5128 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:02
I would say that among all music genres, Prog fans are probably among the ones who are still buying more original albums. But yes it surely affects, it's sad that people investing a lot of work in their music can hardly pay the costs and probably some of them will eventually stop making music if they get more pressing priorities in their lives.

On the other hand these new technologies which allow music piracy are also allowing them to create and record their music much more cheaply and to reach to the whole world of potential listeners for a very low cost, something unthinkable 40 years ago when only a deal with a major label could provide you with decent multinational exposure. So I guess one thing goes with the other, it (the technology, not the fact of piracy in itself) has some negative but also some very positive effects.

Having said that, I wonder what is the future of the piracy download sites. With iTunes, Spotify, Bandcamp and other streaming services maybe they will become less meaningful. For some time many musicians or labels forbid their music from being on YT, but now most of them seem to be giving up and you find full album clips from nearly everybody. Also for some time in the past the chase against Napster, eMule etc and the blocking of pirate downloading sites was quite an active subject. I'm not a frequent user but I have the impression that the chase has relaxed a bit in recent years, hasn't it?
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2014 at 10:01
Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

Believe it or not, there's a lot of bands/artists, not only prog but on any genre of music, that have figured out a way to give the music for free, and still make some profit in terms of touring, selling t-shirts, hats, etc, and make a decent profit, not to become rich and wealthy, but to make a decent living.

It's quite a different world out there, compared to the last decades of the 20th century, and adjustment is necessary to survive the e-trade and it's complexities. 

Exactly. That whole world and everything is changed in the last 35-40 years.
It is actually success today that some new prog band make a money for decent living from their music, 'cause for that decent living, whatever it means, the new bands have to earning much more money than the bands in 70s.
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