Battle Of The Concept |
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Braka1
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 22 2019 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1171 |
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Though I could probably go the rest of my life without hearing it again, I voted for The Wall - purely in terms of its concept. which is at least understandable. The Wall is a pretty well paced narrative that I can follow and seems to tell a coherent story. I have no idea really what TFTO is about, and The Lamb - which in some ways would be my pick, just from the POV of being interestingly bent, just has way too much complicated story crammed into four sides of vinyl. And I also have little idea what it's about, if indeed it's about anything. Forgetting about the concept part of it though, if I could keep just one it might be TFTO, just on the basis that I've always felt one day it would click into place and I'd fall in love with it.
Edited by Braka1 - January 15 2021 at 08:18 |
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MundoReviews
Forum Groupie Joined: January 12 2021 Location: Iceland Status: Offline Points: 47 |
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Can someone tell me why i cant vote on these polls, is it because im new to the forums
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20531 |
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Edited by SteveG - January 15 2021 at 08:30 |
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MundoReviews
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 12788 |
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At least The Wall has a consistent storyline. The Lamb is a muddled, mythologized mess.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20500 |
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Depends on if one is referring to the music or actual literary concept of the record....The Wall makes the most sense on a straightforward level , but I like the music better on Lamb.
As far as TFTO, I like side one musically but I do find the eastern Hindu/Vedanta ideas interesting since I spent several years in the 70's reading varioius mystical texts related to eastern philosphy.
Edited by dr wu23 - January 15 2021 at 09:13 |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 14 2007 Location: Near York UK Status: Offline Points: 7024 |
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Lamb 3.5* (too much filler) Tales 2* (too much pretentious w**kery) Wall 1.5* (too much Roger Waters)
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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Can't think of any filler on the Lamb. Maybe The Waiting Room, although I liked to hear Genesis freaking out. Tales has three sides of filler IMO. The Wall is just a bit bleak and boring compared to earlier Floyd albums. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: June 18 2009 Location: Mexico Status: Offline Points: 12612 |
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So, among all the people who have stated that you prefer The Lamb because of the story... can you explain that story?
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geekfreak
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 21 2013 Location: Musical Garden Status: Offline Points: 9872 |
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The simple concept answer is No! |
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Friedrich Nietzsche: "Without music, life would be a mistake."
Music Is Live Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. Keep Calm And Listen To The Music… < |
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tdfloyd
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 06 2008 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 967 |
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The Wall by far. I can understand the concept although don't listen to it on a bad day. Most of Yes I don't know what Anderson is singing about so I'm fine without understanding all what is going on. The Lamb, with such a large percentage of the songs , jam packed with lyrics, is a maddening mystery to me. So much of the album has vocals but they don't make sense to me. The supposed explaination on the cover make it worse not better. I can like the songs, but to listen to this at least one album at a time, is frustrating. If that makes any sense to anyone but me.
Edited by tdfloyd - January 16 2021 at 00:10 |
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Awesoreno
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 07 2019 Location: Culver City, CA Status: Offline Points: 2906 |
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I started liking it more after reading this: https://www.bloovis.com/music/lamb.html Scroll down a fifth of the way for lyric analysis (before is background and interviews, still interesting). But I like the idea of something meaning more over both time and research. That's just me. Also I like the music the most.
Edited by Awesoreno - January 16 2021 at 00:22 |
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Frenetic Zetetic
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 09 2017 Location: Now Status: Offline Points: 9233 |
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Here's a fun question that might become a thread: If TFTO didn't set "the standard" for being TOO prog...what album would take its place?
Without TFTO as context for "too much" and "too pretentious", what would be the next in line album for that?
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26371 |
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I'm voting for Yes almost by default. Lamb as a concept make absolutely no sense whatsoever but is musically brilliant. The Wall conceptually is clear enough but a real chore to listen to. TFTO does challenge you in a good way. I've often criticised it but really the scope of ambition deserves praise at the very least. It is wonderfully ironic that so many prog fans are down on it.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26371 |
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Works Volume One
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Frenetic Zetetic
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 09 2017 Location: Now Status: Offline Points: 9233 |
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That's just a sh*tty album regardless of genre, lol. I'd argue Brain Salad Surgery is it. The first time I heard that album, I felt like this is exactly why people can't take prog seriously and they hit all the cliches so fast and bluntly there. If you throw BSS out the window higher quality prog albums like CTTE and Foxtrot are sure to follow the baby along with the bathwater IMHO.
Edited by Frenetic Zetetic - January 16 2021 at 01:48 |
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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Sacro_Porgo
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 15 2019 Location: Cygnus Status: Offline Points: 2052 |
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To my (likely flawed) understanding... - A street greaser named Rael is spray painting in NYC when he skates down Broadway, sees a baby lamb lie down, and all is consumed by a strange mist - He finds himself floating in the air over a highway as small and vulnerable as a fly, then presumably gets hit by a car - He wakes up in a strange cocoon, only to see it turn into a cage, and for a nightmarish scene to break out around him as he tries to keep track of his brother John in a cage in a cave - He suddenly finds himself witnessing a bunch of plastic packaging being processed on a conveyor belt - He suddenly finds himself back in NYC, a respectable tough guy member of a gang - In order to meet the challenge of his gang mates, he reads up on sex and how to have it and be good at it, attempts to follow the instructions, only for the girl to not enjoy it at all - He suddenly finds himself waking up the size of a tiny insect in a carpet, and all of the carpet crawlers are headed towards a particular target - Getting there himself, he finds its a room with 32 doors and a lot of figures milling about trying to find the way out or tell him which way to go, some of them from his own life, he's flustered and frightened trying to decide who to listen to - He decides to trust a figure named Lillywhite Lillith and follows/guides her out of the room through one of the doors - She turns out to be evil and tries to kill him or else leaves him lying on some kind of subway railroad tracks - After presumably being hit by a train, or killed by Lillith, or both, he meets the supernatural anesthetist, who seems to be a kind of angel of death or sandman figure - He finds himself entering a new chamber, with a pool of water and scantily clad women like creatures bathing in it (they seem to be like sirens). They invite him into the pool, and he obliges. Instead of having sex, they begin to eat him, but no sooner do they bite into him than they are poisoned and killed by his flesh. Saddened by their deaths, Rael eats them. - He then finds himself entering a strange land peopled by a strange colony of creatures called Slippermen, who are warty and slimy and have humongous genitals. They seem to represent some kind of ancient Greek mythological punishment for sexually depraved people in life. They want Rael to join them, saying he could be (or already is) just like them. Rael doesn't want to be like them (which angers them) and goes to the nearest doctor to be castrated so he can't become a Slipperman. - The doctor does his job and places Rael's genitals in a plastic tube. Before Rael can take it, his brother John appears, bringing him great relief. Unfortunately, at the same time a raven swoops down and steals the plastic tube. Rael decides to chase down the raven rather than stay with his brother. - The raven leads Rael over a sticky, muddy terrain for a while before dropping the tube into a river. - Rael then sees his brother John floating helplessly in the rapids. He has to make a choice between the tube with his genitals and his brother, and he cries out "hey John!" Somewhere in the middle of chasing after his brother in the rapids, Rael sees a portal open up seeming to lead back to Broadway, where this whole crazy mess began. It might be here that he cries out "he John!" and decides to save his brother rather than go home. It's the most emotionally touching moment of the whole cartwheeling story. - Rael finally gets to his brother, looks into his eyes, and then sees that it isn't his brother he's saved... it's himself. - We don't find out what exactly happens to Rael after that. Whether he ever makes it back to Broadway, changes his life for better or for worse. What we do get is Peter Gabriel as narrator singing quite compellingly about the meaning of it. What it is and what it isn't. The point of this seems to be to leave the moral of the story ambiguous and up to interpretation, but I like to think its a bit meta and the "it" the song is referring to is the whole story and album itself, a kind of affirmation that the most important thing isn't so much the moral of the story, but the act of telling a story, or making music. It's not the lesson as much as the teaching and the performance that matters. But as I said, it's not very specific. It, more than anything else on the record, is extremely up to interpretation, and I think that's very intentional. There's my crack at it, lol.
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Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19706 |
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Not a huge fan of either, but the one that makes most sense is definitely The Wall (the movie helps also). Rael's quest is a very twisted one, but nothing compared to Jon's warped mind
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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nick_h_nz
Collaborator Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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I find Lamb as easy to follow as The Wall. The stories for each are quite ambiguous (and deliberately so, I’m sure), with periods of quite disturbing fantasies, but I’ve never understood people suggesting that The Wall makes more sense than Lamb. I don’t think a concept needs to be completely laid out for you to understand and follow it. And a lot of feted concept albums aren’t really that great at telling a story (put your hand up Queensryche with Operation:Mindcrime. An album I love, but whose concept to me is far less lucidly told than Lamb or The Wall).
Tales is great musically, and may well have a concept, but it’s over the head of most listeners, I would suspect - rather than Lamb and Wall, which (for all their fantastical moments) are still more closely grounded in reality and common human experience. To be fair, when I first saw this poll, there were no comments, and it wasn’t made clear how we were meant to be voting, so I didn’t vote based on the concept, so much as my overall enjoyment of the albums. Strangely, upon thinking about the concepts, which I guess I never really had much until now, my order remains unchanged if I were to vote based on what I think has the best concept. 1. Lamb 2. Wall 3. Tales |
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14203 |
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Never got into TFTO. Musically both Lamb and Wall have their highlights but are apparently too dominated by the concept to keep a high standard from beginning to end. At the end of the day it's The Wall for me for the concept question, regarding listening pleasure both about equal.
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