Objectivity in rating albums |
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 13530 |
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But I still find it very fine just to rate according to what one like, or not rate at all! It's not about that. Edited by David_D - March 22 2022 at 04:50 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23098 |
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^Which is exactly my point.
It’s our individual tastebuds that ultimately dictates what we appreciate. I know how technically gifted say Annie Haslam or Steve Vai are…but I very much prefer Catherine Riberoux and David Gilmour over either. |
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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Hugh Manatee
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 07 2021 Location: The Barricades Status: Offline Points: 1562 |
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There is the other end of that spectrum to consider also. Sally Oldfield for instance is a technically very good singer however some people might not like her singing and consider it shrill, and that's not to mention opera singers...
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I should have been a pair of ragged claws
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 13530 |
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This is important, as it's about appreciating ambitious music. Edited by David_D - March 21 2022 at 12:40 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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wiz_d_kidd
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You're welcome. Glad I could help.
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Archisorcerus
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 02 2022 Location: Izmir Status: Offline Points: 2518 |
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Like I said, utilising objectivity while rating albums is not the same as creating objective criteria for assessment. And one's objectivity is still subjective. One can give a conventional performance a 5-star, and another can give it a 1-star as it is too typical. One can find perfect precision as something to be praised, whilst another can find it too robotic.
Edited by Archisorcerus - March 21 2022 at 06:18 |
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SteveG
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nick_h_nz
Collaborator Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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Completely agree, and they are among my favourite musicians, too. Whenever I have been asked to give my top five bands/artists of all time, invariably Bowie, Reed, Pop and Young are in there. None are conventional singers by any stretch of the imagination. I also love Young’s guitar style (or lack of style, I suspect many would say), and Bowie’s saxophone playing (which has drawn considerable criticism over the years). Reed speaks more often than he sings, and even when he sings, it still often sounds more like speaking. One of the most common criticisms of Lulu was that Reed couldn’t sing. I have to wonder how many people making that criticism had ever listened to much (or any) Reed previously, as his “singing” on Lulu was far from atypical. Almost every criteria that has been presented here as something objective is barely so, if at all. |
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23098 |
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How does one to about determining whether or not X artist does any of the aforementioned criterias greatly/perfectly/etc?
Lou Reed, Neil Young, Iggy and Bowie plus a whole host of highly original performers are what I’d personally consider “anti-singers” - most especially put up against folks that can actually sing in a more traditional manner. Lou Reed and Bowie wouldn’t last a day in something like X Factor…yet does that mean they’re less interesting from a musical point of view? |
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 13530 |
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About your aesthetical approach, James B., in my opinion, it would be good to divide a review in two parts, an analysing and "a judging" one. And when have analysed a musical work by the means of the criteria, you have chosen (which I find to be very fine ones), it would be good to be open for discussion as the aesthetical "judgement" can be quite different, certainly being largely subjective.
Edited by David_D - March 21 2022 at 14:54 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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nick_h_nz
Collaborator Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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Don’t forget semiotics. This thread, and PA is general, is mired in semiotics as much, if not more, than semantics! 😄
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Atavachron
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ProgArchives-- Mired in Semantics since 2004 |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Hugh Manatee
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This thread became mired in the quicksand of semantics some long time ago (maybe even before its conception).
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I should have been a pair of ragged claws
Scuttling across the floors of uncertain seas |
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 13530 |
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Whatever one will call and characterize these music quality entails worked out by wiz_d_kidd, I'm very satisfied with them as the kind of rating criteria I've had in mind, as they refer to the music and not to a rater's tastes. Thank you very much for all the contributions to this thread and the different points of view, except from those posts I didn't find constructive, but on the contrary. And I hope many of you have found this debate interesting and somehow giving!
Edited by David_D - March 21 2022 at 04:10 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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David_D
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me to
Edited by David_D - March 20 2022 at 13:58 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Archisorcerus
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^ I didn't mean "failing in life", as is obvious. You fail an exam. You fail. Plain and clear. What I mean should be crystal clear.
I really like having a clear perception. The "I never lose," philosophy I mentioned, and the like, are a delusions and fallacies. I'm of course aware that you learn from mistakes, failures, losses. You can immensely benefit from them too. Even a smart kid knows it. Edited by Archisorcerus - March 20 2022 at 13:06 |
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JD
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And BTW @Archisorcerus the only time you fail is when you give up trying. Only then do you no longer have an opportunity to succeed. I'm sure you consider either one of the space shuttle incidents failures. But they were in fact terrible tragedies at the time, that gave great rise to succeeding by necessity. |
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Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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nick_h_nz
Collaborator Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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Let me rephrase then, because (as usual) I agree with all of what you say. I would think the majority of people understood what is meant by objectivity - even if they can’t understand what objectively is, because that is something that has been philosophically debated throughout the ages. |
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progaardvark
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This inevitably leads to division by zero. Once you synergize your channels and integrate it with wearable users while leveraging with robust bandwidth we can then expedite targeted dynamic vortals amidst seamless relationships on a disintermediate front-end. It's cloudy in a valley of hot dogs.
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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
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Lewian
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I believe that the definition of objectivity is in a totally messy state. The issue with most definitions of objectivity (and I know a good deal of literature about it) is not so much that according to these definitions objectivity couldn't exist, but rather that no human being could ever get into the state to reliably secure or check the objectivity of anything. In order to repair that, there are a good number of definitions that loosen some key requirements, and then one can have endless debates about whether it still deserves to be called objectivity without those requirements. Also any two such definitions are usually in disagreement with each other. Intersubjectivity is one of them; note also that in principle one needs to specify how far intersubjectivity is required to reach, as for any supposedly objective fact you always find an outcast who disagrees with it. I'm not sure whether anyone understands what objectivity is, let alone a "majority", and avoiding the term completely will for sure not make the world a worse place. And I'm not just taking about music rating!
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