future of prog |
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Stigfzm
Forum Newbie Joined: April 10 2024 Location: China Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Well, actually prog is not the only case. In fact, the whole genre of rocking music is definite to face the same problem of exposure. We can put another musical genre as a comparison: Classical Music. As Sir Paul McCartney once opined in his days in the Beatles during an interview, "I think rock n' roll is today's classical music", he just embraced the predominance of rock music in the market over the real classical music at that time and admitted the popularity of classical music before that of rock. However, I think, there's an undertone there: rock music will face the same promblem of classical music----- being dated. Just look at sales, you will see the Asian groups and pop electrical songs heading the hit list for a long time. There is certain rock groups which gain popularity just for a while, however. The whole rock genre has already experienced lack of exposure and low sales. It appears to be secondary in the music market. Just like classical music during the 1950s and 1960s.
And the classical 70s prog, obviously, is among the lowest of low in the hierachy of rock due to its issues like being too difficult to start with and being too bourgeois or elite-like. What's more, I think prog's mission to influence musicians has come to a halt these days. When we talk about 70s music, definitely, King Crimson, Genesis, Pink Floyd, ELP are big names we can't avoid whose influence was still carried into the 80s when Talking Heads, Marillion, Rush stepped up to the forefronts whith their legacies. (Btw: We can also make a bold claim: no prog in 70s, no Bohemian Rhapsody.) Math rock, opera rock, to name a few, all inherit prog's boldness in blending different musc elements. Even Kurt Kobain received KC's power of Red and started the legend we all know. But, now just tell me, besides new prog, have any famous rock stars during the two decades after 2000 specially mentioned 70s prog as the greatest impact and gained predominance over pops or massive popularity Dream Theatre, Tool, and the likes once had who can ascertain their roots back in 70s? Pretty rare. And the strak reality is, many new young fans are drawn to prog simply because of the publicity of JoJo's Bizarre Adventures instead of modern rock bands. There's another fact. I keep in contact with many rock fans. Some of them like prog but hate Keith Emerson especially. Their thinking is very simple: who the hell will be insterested in rock interpretation of classical songs that nobody actually listens to or even cares, which will take back to my aforementioned point on rock and classical music. But, what people must admit is that if someone delves into quintessential rocking music, rather than electrical pop sh*ts, those big names of prog are inevitable. They just stand there. Nobody can circumvent. The Beatles designed a blueprint of rock music and prog was one of the most outstanding pioneers to reinvent it. Their musicianship decides their characters: they are not postitutes to give pleasure, rather the cynical Diogenēs to push limits, explore boundaries. So, that is why when ELP started to embrace extravagance during mid 70s, their doom was inevitiable. And all classical prog bands died soon. Still, new tech and interpretation of music helps to inspire kids to develop new prog of thier own. They put a completely different complexion over prog and ensure its continuity. Prog is not going to be doomed in the future. It just lives in another form we might not be familiar with.
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Valdez1
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 07 2024 Location: Walla Walla Wa Status: Offline Points: 321 |
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Now that's re-imagined!!... Killer!
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 33003 |
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Ah, very cool. It rather made my silly associative brain imagine, in part, a garage band version of Premiata Forneria Marconi (Award-winning Marconi Bakery). |
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Just a music fan passing through trying to fill some void. Various music I am into now: a youtube playlist
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16427 |
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Hi, Actually, two of us worked in the same place, in a house of pies and bakery. We turned the garage into a studio.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 20648 |
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^ As I am partial to Shining's interpretation:
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 33003 |
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^ That's great. I don't want to derail this thread, but I'm partial to Caballero Reynaldo's "21st Century Country Man" off his 2015 album, In The Lounge of the Naldo King.
Edited by Logan - April 16 2024 at 15:25 |
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Just a music fan passing through trying to fill some void. Various music I am into now: a youtube playlist
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Grumpyprogfan
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 09 2019 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 10130 |
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I prefer Todd Rundgren's version.
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 33003 |
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If I try to like music, I fail. I enjoy it, but I'm not that keen on it overall (instrumentally it's quite faithful), but it seemed to be relevant to King Crimson776's commentary. Mind you, I have only listened to it a couple of times, (I have listened to the KC original many times). There are some really interesting and creative takes on other's music (adaptations) but this one not so much imo. It's skilful however. By the way, some share their disdain for covers/ variations, but there are many that I love and find worthwhile in their own right. |
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Just a music fan passing through trying to fill some void. Various music I am into now: a youtube playlist
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 33003 |
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Ah, the playful pleasures of being a groupie. |
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Just a music fan passing through trying to fill some void. Various music I am into now: a youtube playlist
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16427 |
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Hi, I lived with a band for 6 months and played with them a wee bit while learning. They were specially good, doing their own material which the bass player and the drummer had written, and not bother with any other anything. The bass player was inspired by Roger Waters and Rush ... but the concept piece that he had written, was over an hour long and was special and had some neat moments. They stuck to it for the most part, and you could see the value of getting to know their own material, instead of the stuff that you hear at the Hotel circuit in America, which is mostly top ten ... the musicians involved are not likely to go very far. When they did not get the reception they wanted one time, some members of the band kinda gave up and decided they needed some covers to get the audience going. The band was over 3 months later! If you had been around so many writers, as I was when young, you would notice a very distinct difference which is the mark of an "artist" ... and many folks, stood up for themselves with a very strong palate and discussion about talent. Gabriel Garcia Marquez might have read others, and been influenced by someone else ... but he knew the secret to his work, was his own vision. Pablo Neruda is the same thing, and ended up, inadvertently becoming a voice for some freedoms that were being taken away in Chile. Albert Camus, even went so far as to say that he hated most folks that thought they were writers, and all they were doing was creating pulp fiction. Jean Genet, turned things around some so one could not really tell what he was about in reality ... but by the time you read "Our Lady of Flowers" and a couple of other things, you realize quickly that he is intentionally throwing a finger at a lot of machinations and commerciality of it all. The hard part of a lot of rock music, and its attempt to make it, is more about the success of the band financially, than it is about any artistic definition of their work ... and we forget how much the folks that we love and are inspired by that became known as "progressive" ... in fact did not exactly do covers in a bar. There are always exceptions, of course, but Jimi went out to blow the whole thing ... the writing was great but the voice that created it did not help the song come alive ... and Jimi's version became the watchtower for us to realize how important some things can be and how much it mattered and was valuable. Again, influences are fine, but if you wanted to make it in the world with a band, you would be doing your own material and make sure that you could improve on it, to be noticed ... go ahead and do covers and see if anyone is going to pay attention ... to me that is the definition of a musician or an artist. The musician gives in to things around him/her and the social everything ... the artist? Nope ... I paint what I see. I play what I hear. I write what my movie shows. It becomes the intuition, rather than what we, as FANS, think it should be.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20525 |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 20648 |
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^ Hard to parse, I'm assuming there are a couple of extraneous "not"s in there.
BTW: Stravinsky had all sorts of musical influences, Tchaikovsky for example.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16427 |
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Hi, With one HUGE difference. The young tend to do their own thing, not someone else's! You really think Stravinsky would have gotten where he did by doing some other local, and known music of the time? It's not, necessarily, about being young ... it's about being "stubborn" enough to do your own thing, and not give a cahoot about anything else. Weird that you STILL don't see that in the ranks of Progressive Music, specially in the late 60's and early 70's ... very few of them played covers, and just went out their own way. I kinda do not think of The Nice, or later ELP playing "covers" in fun stuff that gave them a mental break! The really special progressive folks NEVER played covers or anyone else's material!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Hrychu
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 03 2013 Location: poland? Status: Offline Points: 4249 |
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On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.
Ernest Vong |
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Archisorcerus
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 02 2022 Location: Izmir Status: Offline Points: 2512 |
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But, aren't you Shakespeare? |
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Atavachron
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How will we mark your words if we're all long gone? |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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fuxi
Prog Reviewer Joined: March 08 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2459 |
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Henry Cow and National Health have NEVER been played much. I grew up in the 1970s, and other than me there was only ONE person who liked them in our entire school. But Hatfield and the North and National Health especially keep influencing younger new bands, which shows SOME people are still discovering AND loving them. They're always going to be a minority taste, just like (for example) Flann O'Brien's novels or Utagawa Kuniyoshi's woodblock prints, but albums such as OF QUEUES AND CURES sound so fresh and imaginative they'll always find new converts. |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 20648 |
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^ There definitely is "good" and "bad" music out there, objectively. But it takes a lot of experience to be able to assess the quality, and we all have our biases in how we determine and weigh the criteria. Some people are biased heavily towards the classic prog style, if there even is such a thing (even classic Yes sound really different from classic Genesis, for example). And some people are also biased towards the classic musicians they grew up listening to, and against newer generations of musicians which they feel are like imposters, claiming previous discoveries as their own. Then on the other hand there are those who look for experimentation above all else, nothing can sound like it's been done before, resulting in dissonant/noisy music that is practically void of (musical) substance.
To me, this all seems silly. Just listen to a release and you'll know, intuitively, if you found it to be bad, good, great or even awesome. Listen to it again after some time, maybe also under different circumstances, and your feeling about it may change. You can add some analysis on top, but IMHO the best we can do is to just listen and communicate how we felt about what we heard.
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Awesoreno
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 07 2019 Location: Culver City, CA Status: Offline Points: 2905 |
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You keep saying things that newer bands/artists do like they are bad things (and it's erroneous to assume that all, or even most of them, do, but that's another issue). You also claim to know that all the classic era musicians you listed actually have that much of a background in Classical music (which, again, is a brooooaaaaad genre, that covers many styles that Zappa and Fripp enjoyed, but you'd probably label as "experimentalist cr@p"). Many of them did not, and if they did, didn't actually receive formal training. Which shouldn't matter. And many of those artists see it as an upside to not have that training so as not to pigeonhole their own creativity. None of it is good or bad, it just is. Once again, it's ok to not like it, but just admit that it comes down to your taste and not the talent of the musicians. For every band that actually reaches for something, like black midi, Bubblemath, you get some band that professes to love Mussorgsky and Yes and it just sounds like rehash after rehash (Karfagen, Karmakanic, etc.).
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20525 |
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