Dropping the Rating System

I can dream but the geekiness level of the aging Progarchives community makes them too stubborn to let go of the numeric ratings. Alas. I also wish Prog Polls would wither away one day in favor of more elaborate discussion about which album or band one prefers.

The countless fruitless discussions, like this:

Thread: Genesis vs. Yes OP: Vote on your favorite band from the Top 100. Reply: Genesis. Relpy 2: Yes because they had more 5 star albums. Reply 3: Neither. Apples to oranges.

I'm kinda tired of this cliché, honestly.

Edited by Hrychu - July 25 2025 at 04:03

This is well worth taking on board regardless of whether PA loses the rating system or not. I would just hide all the ratings so that lists can be generated for ease of use but the number is rendered unimportant. The lists don't even need to be ranked but perhaps could be shown in alphabetical order or order of release.


COPIED DIRECTLY FROM THE SITE:
Pros and Cons
So we decided to take a look at the pros and cons of having a rating with every review and see what other options we could think of. As we did with every change we made to the site.

On the pro side of a rating system, we found that people would have a quick summary of a review. When you read a lot of reviews from a certain reviewer, you get to know their taste and can therefore compare to your own and get a quick impression from a single number.

The negative side started with the same point as for the positive side: people would have a quick summary. The danger is that some people only look at the rating. That's not what we spend all that time listening and writing for.

But more importantly, all the other points on the negative side focus on the meaning and value of the rating.

We realised that there is a danger of rating inflation. When a reviewer finds the second album better than the first, they are inclined to give it a higher rating. But what if the next is even better? A higher rating then has less meaning.

If we use a rating, that single number should reflect something, mean something. We quickly realised different reviewers had different ideas about that, even with a proper description. A 6 means different things, based on the reviewer. In our system, a 6 was still a nice album, although hardly anybody saw it like that, and a 6 was often taken as an insult (most likely because of the rating inflation mentioned above). The discussions following a certain rating (even higher ones that were not regarded as high enough) have taken a lot of useless time.

When a reviewer likes an album, they will rate it with a high number. When they do not like an album but they think a lot of people would like it, they might still give it a high rating anyway. This means the objective and subjective parts of a rating are not consistent.

A rating is given by a single reviewer in a single point in time and in a certain mood. Someone's taste can change (mine certainly has), and their mood changes even more often. So ratings are very likely to change.

If you're really interested in what other people think of an album, having a weighed average of a lot of people makes a lot more sense than just one. You're welcome to check out RateYourMusic or Progarchives, of course, where they do averages from more people. Our process of reviewing is just completely different. Which is perfectly fine, of course.

Looking in the past, new reviewers have had a tendency to hand out a 10 rather quickly. We've all been there, and most if not all the reviewers I've talked to about this all have regrets on some of their 10s. What I thought was an absolute future classic at the time, didn't stand the test of time at all, or was surpassed by a better album.

Grumpyprogfan wrote: There are many people here that English is not their language and they can't write reviews, so their opinions would no longer count.

It might be a controversial hot take but that'd make Progarchives better.

The truth is, Progarchvies is written English, the world's current Lingua Franca. You might whine about Eurocentrism, Colonialism, Anglosphere Imperialism, yadda yadda, all you want, but you can't change the simple fact that English is the de facto Lingua Franca of the world wide web. All the band biographies, menu text, forum guidelines on this website, the Progarchives, are in English.

If somebody failed to learn English, the Lingua Franca, (which, trust me, allows for many opportunities and helps in communication between people from all over the world and it's not just for agruing with other nerds on Progarchives) on a basic enough level, so they can't express whether they like some album or not, then sorry.

That person should not be on an international website in the first place, and instead perhaps focus on a local space, designed and optimized for the speakers of whatever their native language is.

I think that Progarchives wouldn't lose anything valuable without a few ordinary/uneducated people (or bots?) leaving a vague numeric-based quasi-opinion. If anything, it will gain from it, getting rid of the fluff.

At least this would be a better option than the current situation, where anyone can click on any releases, giving a rating, without knowing or even having listened to their music.

Edited by TSoP2018 - July 25 2025 at 06:46

TSoP2018 wrote: At least this would be a better option than the current situation, where anyone can click on any releases, giving a rating, without knowing or even having listened to their music.

Hey now. You're insulting Paul, PA'S most prolific threadster.

Not gonna happen here. Been discussed before. I believe Max loves the ratings.

But try not to lose sleep over this issue. The upside is that the ratings are weighted so that they mean little unless you contribute. Ratings with reviews are weighted much more than just ratings. Ratings from collabs who have worked on the site are weighted much more than non-collabs. I think I remember hearing that the ratings without reviews are weighted so low as to be essentially insignificant in the average rating of an album. Max set up the ratings using "weight" so that the serious contributors have the greatest impact on the average ratings, not the drive-by clickers.

I should emphasize the above thoughts are just based on my sketchy memory of past discussions. If what I wrote above is incorrect in 2025, chalk it up to my memory's failings or my lack of paying attention on official matters that have changed since my "plugged in" days.

Edited by Finnforest - July 25 2025 at 07:08

I understand why Max & others like the rating system on a site such as PA. For those albums where a significant number have reviewed/rated, it is a pretty good guide to how they are perceived or thought about in the community.

I took a decision not to have scores on my website from the off. DPRP are simply playing catchup!

Of more concern to me is allowing all and sundry to post reviews. IMO, the first ten reviews submitted by a new member should be vetted before being published.

^ Yes indeed, and any fundamental change to the ratings / reviews system is going to be practically impossible to implement.

I actually like & enjoy PA's current rating system, but I will once again take the opportunity to insist it would be greatly improved if all ratings from those who haven't visited the site in, say, 15 years were eliminated. Why is my vote today considered equal to the vote of someone who may be dead, or who just stopped by the site for a brief period, voted, and then vanished?

In my opinion, a rating should be combined with a review or a short comment. Allowing compulsive rating without any rules or limits makes the rating system itself worthless.
For example, if I'm not a fan of Primus, then I can give 1 to all their releases without explanation, and that's ok?