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vwcamper
Forum Newbie
Joined: January 11 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4
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Topic: Caravan Posted: January 13 2005 at 09:45 |
Caravan can anyone tell me why they weren’t as successful as say Genesis as I rate them up there with Procol Harum and Yes. Could it be down to bad management?
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist
Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12810
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Posted: January 13 2005 at 12:51 |
Musically more quirky? Perhaps Caravan's vocalists (e.g. Richard Sinclair) had less charisma than Peter Gabriel? Different record labels will have different publicity machines and Charisma were more effective than Deram/Decca - the label which turned down the Beatles!!!! But Genesis wasn't successful (at least financial) until Selling England. Caravan like a number of Canterbury bands were probably more successful in mainland Europe. And then there could have been a prevailing hippy attitude, where success and heaps of cash were less important to playing the music.............However, I think to some extent they were over-shadowed by friends and fellow Canterbury scene band Soft Machine in the early 70's - but even Soft Machine never made money - as the forthcoming Machine biography will reveal and one of many reasons why members often did session work to make ends meet.
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308
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Posted: January 13 2005 at 12:56 |
yes, Caravan is a wonderful band, they embodie the Canterbury sound.
Their two opus :"if i could do it" and "in the land" are masterpieces.
Unfortunately, they turn bad at the end of the 70's
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Man Erg
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 26 2004
Location: Isle of Lucy
Status: Offline
Points: 7456
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Posted: January 13 2005 at 12:57 |
People seemed to like a gimmick in the 70's.Gabriel had one with his dressing-up box,Caravan relied on the music and the music alone.Not decrying Genesis' musical talents ,that couldn't be farther from the truth,but an observation nonetheless.Many other prog bands without gimmicks became more successful.Maybe a constantly changing line-up didn't help ,but then again,Yes saw quite a few of those.
Edited by Man Erg
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Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb.
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: January 13 2005 at 14:53 |
Caravan nearly broke through, they had a surprise hit single in the UK with "If I could do it all over again, I'd do it all over you". They were probably just a touch too jazzy for mainstream rockers, and a touch too rock for jazzers!
They're something of an acquired taste for many people, but certainly well worth the effort.
By the way, aren't Caravans and VWCampers mutually exclusive?
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chorus of one
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 27 2004
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 299
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Posted: January 14 2005 at 00:26 |
I have 'In The Land Of Grey And Pink' and I'm a little confused why it's considered a prog classic. Nine Feet Underground is a wonderful song, the rest to me seem just 'good'...Love To Love You and Golf Girl for example, enjoyable tunes, but I would have thought they were much too simple and poppy for your average progger. Hmm...
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308
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Posted: January 14 2005 at 03:00 |
I've got a Caravan CD: "song from Oblivion fishermen" which features a fantastic version of "Nine feet...".
the sound is unfortunately poor, making it rather a document.
the point is that the drumming has nothing to do with the studio version.
It's much more dynamic, virtuose, the overall sound is much psychedelic.
On the studio version, it seems that they have choosed
to sound more "pop", and the drumming is more "binary"...
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Nerevar
Forum Groupie
Joined: November 17 2004
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 61
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Posted: January 14 2005 at 05:47 |
chorus of one wrote:
I have 'In The Land Of Grey And Pink' and I'm a little confused why it's considered a prog classic. Nine Feet Underground is a wonderful song, the rest to me seem just 'good'...Love To Love You and Golf Girl for example, enjoyable tunes, but I would have thought they were much too simple and poppy for your average progger. Hmm... |
Well, keep in mind that if you compare a lot of prog sub-genres to symphonic prog rock, they might pale in complexity and grandeur. You might have seen the discussion about whether DSOTM is prog or not, because it lacks complexity or variations in time signatures etc. Fruitless discussions really... But if you check out the definition to Caravan's sub-genre of prog, Canterbury, you'll see it fits quite nicely.
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"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy."
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chorus of one
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 27 2004
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 299
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Posted: January 14 2005 at 07:29 |
Nerevar wrote:
chorus of one wrote:
I have 'In The Land Of Grey And Pink' and I'm a little confused why it's considered a prog classic. Nine Feet Underground is a wonderful song, the rest to me seem just 'good'...Love To Love You and Golf Girl for example, enjoyable tunes, but I would have thought they were much too simple and poppy for your average progger. Hmm... |
Well, keep in mind that if you compare a lot of prog sub-genres to symphonic prog rock, they might pale in complexity and grandeur. You might have seen the discussion about whether DSOTM is prog or not, because it lacks complexity or variations in time signatures etc. Fruitless discussions really... But if you check out the definition to Caravan's sub-genre of prog, Canterbury, you'll see it fits quite nicely. | Oh I'm not one to care too much about complexity, I was just surprised when I heard it. I was expecting it to be more along the lines of other Canterbury I'd heard, but it sounded a bit different. Still a nice album, I prefer Hatfield though.
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist
Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12810
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Posted: January 14 2005 at 07:36 |
Played I Wished I were Stoned last night on my radioshow from If ICould Do It All Over Again..." - the very title giving the clue that here is band who haven't given up on their hippiness and underground starting point, so musically in transition from late psychedelia to prog rock - but as somebody has pointed out- typical Canterbury of the time.
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bokal
Forum Newbie
Joined: January 13 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 11
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Posted: January 18 2005 at 07:28 |
Dick Heath wrote:
Played I Wished I were Stoned last night on my radioshow from If ICould Do It All Over Again..." - the very title giving the clue that here is band who haven't given up on their hippiness and underground starting point, so musically in transition from late psychedelia to prog rock - but as somebody has pointed out- typical Canterbury of the time. |
You have choose a nice song, one of my favourites from Caravan! They were really a good band, but some changes in the line-up have changed also the music style after the first three album. I've got If I Could..., The LAnd Of and Waterloo Lily and the latest one is th elast exciting of the three. I think that they were good musicians with good songs, but not enought popular or charismatic to sell millions of copies.
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Space Stoned Rock
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist
Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 12810
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Posted: January 18 2005 at 07:34 |
bokal wrote:
[QUOTE=Dick Heath]I think that they were good musicians with good songs, but not enought popular or charismatic to sell millions of copies.
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I do believe Caravan were awarded a gold disc in the mid 90's based on the total sales of Land Of The Grey & Pink ; not quite millions but still respectable numbers - but did they get what was owed in royalty cheques?
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Emperor
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2004
Location: Russian Federation
Status: Offline
Points: 480
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Posted: January 18 2005 at 08:02 |
Personally, I never was a fan of Caravan. They give too few impressions to me. It's subjectively.
Objectively: Caravan has a huge lack in dramaticity, freshness and power in their music. They have no necessary ambitions, no especial "charisma" - great bands (Genesis, Yes, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, etc.) always have them.
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I Prophesy Disaster...
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