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Topic ClosedWas U.K. the dawning of Prog Metal?

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Dan Bobrowski View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Was U.K. the dawning of Prog Metal?
    Posted: January 26 2005 at 13:45

I read Gatot Widayanto's review of the first U.K. album. He said he "One thing that I can assure you, like it or not, this album has inspired the birth of progressive metal vein. You want some proof?" and he explains similarities to Dream Theater and Yngie Malmsteen's cover of "In the Dead of Night."

Holdsworth's guitar work  has long been credited as an influence by Metal guitarists. His use of distortion to create long fluid (legato) phrases has been copied and become common amongst guitar players worldwide. Eddie Jobson's keyboard work seems more "in your face" than most keyboardists (except Keith Emerson.... ha ha Beat ya to it, Linda), which is prevalent in Prog Metal. Bruford's drumming on U.K. is bombastic, more so than on his previous efforts. John Wetton's bass, unfortunately, gets burried in the mix, but his voice pushes the limits to near screaming moments.

I'm not sure if I totally agree with GW's comments, but I see what he means. If not U.K., then where did it start?

Personally, I think By-Tor and the Snow Dog by RUSH got the Prog-Metal ball rolling.

How's aboutchu?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2005 at 13:55

Yeah - Rush is a Prog-Heavy rock hybrid - but Rush is still lighter than DT....

Just different, but I can see how i love early rush thus love Dream Theatre...The two musical veins are similar....

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2005 at 14:13
Originally posted by danbo danbo wrote:

Holdsworth's guitar work  has long been credited as an influence by Metal guitarists.

 

(No denying and Eddie Van Halen and Joe Satriani are top of that list). However, I think Holdsworth's acknowledgement to all that is clearly shown in the opening bars of the tune Metal Fatique - some atypical metal chords, before getting back to the usual business. While Yngwie Malmsteen has a fair crack at In The Dead Of Night, he fights shy of the Holdsworth finger distorting fast runs and legato - and perhaps one of the few tunes on Inspirations (I like this record btw), he doesn't make sound like Rainbow (which he does on the Kansas cover).

 

Dando I've chased down many Holdsworth-inspired guitarists, and I can't think of any who come close from the heavy  or metal prog rock side. The best ones are predominantly jazz rock fusionists. One non-jazz exception: Francis Dunnery whilst with It Bites (and in his Holdsworth-meets-Peter Gabriel period - I'll have to dig ou the interview from 1988) occasionally threw in Holdsworth-like runs during his solos. Otherwise check Scott Henderson, Frank Gambale (e.g. Truth In Shredding with Gambale and Holdsworth), Scott McGill (Echolyn spin-off Finneus Gauge has always reminded me of UK-meets-Bruford, and then there was  McGill's Handfarm - his more recently albums with Michael Manring e.g Addition By Substraction, find McGill sounding less Holdsworthian), Susan Weinhart (e.g. a couple of tracks on her second album Other Side Of The Tracks), Nguygen Le (occasionally slips in Holdsworth mode), Jacques LeGrec, Elliott Freeman Group, the Minnesota-based Whoopgnash, Alex McHacek (whose first album Featuring Ourselves, sounds like Holdsworth in one of Zappa's bands),  Steve Topping (Time and Distance; he even has a Holdsworth rhythm selection) - and I forget the name of the Dutch guy..... etc. etc.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2005 at 14:58
Many many more. Ron Jarzombek from Spastic Ink. I've heard a few Stick Players that have the Holdsy thing going. I'm not a big metal nut, but I've heard a lot of AH quotes over the years. Must replace my thinking cap, it's around here somewhere....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2005 at 17:42

Danbo:

It is an interesting theory, and probably not without some merit.  It would be interesting for someone (hint, hint...) to take the time to research this a little.  It could be done simply by figuring out which "prog metal" bands and album were chronologically "first," and then developing the theory from there.

Peace.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2005 at 17:47

Mid to late seventies Anglo/Welsh band Lone Star were more significant.They latched onto the prog side of Led Zep's music.Rush were also important.UK had little to do with prog metal.I don't hear anything on their two studio albums that screams 'prog metal' to be honest. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2005 at 18:17
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Mid to late seventies Anglo/Welsh band Lone Star were more significant.They latched onto the prog side of Led Zep's music.Rush were also important.UK had little to do with prog metal.I don't hear anything on their two studio albums that screams 'prog metal' to be honest. 

a big infleunce to this was the playing of crazy horses on mainstream tv by osmonds.This showed guitar and keyboard in a heavy style to mass audiance around world.i think this statrted the progmetal style.

I see the future.Tomorrow is cancelled.
Thorgeir Vifilsson
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2005 at 18:48
Originally posted by maani maani wrote:

Danbo:

It is an interesting theory, and probably not without some merit.  It would be interesting for someone (hint, hint...) to take the time to research this a little.  It could be done simply by figuring out which "prog metal" bands and album were chronologically "first," and then developing the theory from there.

Peace.

Personally, I'm not a prog metal kinda guy. I thought Gatot's point to be interesting.

Who was the FIRST actual PROG METAL act? Who coined the term?

Did anyone predate Dream Theater that consider themselves PROG METAL?

  

 

Answers, dammit, I want answers. Pete?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2005 at 18:52
yes as i say osmond were first proto progmetal group.very famos in seventies decade but not carry on wiyth this style because they cannot through the religion they like.Crazy horses very much liked in my country at disco. all young men dance to this.Thumbs Up My country is greenland, we do not have so much of the rock music
I see the future.Tomorrow is cancelled.
Thorgeir Vifilsson
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2005 at 20:36
Very good suggestion about "Crazy Horse" by Osmonds.
...
The largest record convention in the US is in Austin,Texas. Wallace heard a story that went like this:
These bigtime collectors every year ,after the record show, get together to play rare vinyl psyche discoveries they had during the last year. One guy puts on a record and everyone's jaw drops to the floor.
"Whats THAT?" They all demand in unison. "Man, thats the real sh*t. Feckin' far out!"
Then the guy drops the bombshell- "Its a lesser-known track by early Osmonds."

All the pros go white in the face.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2005 at 20:46

I believe Uriah Heep was the Dawning of Prog/Metal, they were working in this style since Look at Yourself (1971) with their first epic July Morning and complex tracks as Look at Yourself or Tears in my Eyes that has most extraordinaire vocal work I ever heard.

Later the genre was developed with Demons and Wixzards and Magician's Birthdat (1972)

If I'm not wrong this is 7 years before UK.

Iván



Edited by ivan_2068
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2005 at 21:27

U.K. the dawn of prog-metal? I don't see how. Most people usually argue for certain albums or songs by Heep or Purple. I feel Rush's 2112 is a pretty obvious roadmark. Rush aren't a prog-metal  band, per se (though on Vapor Trails they practically are, on certain songs), but the "2112" suite is a serious candidate for an early prog-metal tune (remember, this was '76). Somebody (not on this board) also brought up Yes' "Machine Messiah," and I find that an interesting choice, much more so than anything by U.K.

'Sides, pre-SFAM Dream Theater always sounded like Rush-meets-Kansas-meets-Iron Maiden to me. And Fates Warning predates DT.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2005 at 22:19

Never mind the beginning -- WHEN WILL IT END?Stern Smile

 

PinchMust... stop... the pain! Guitars... too distorted! Drums... too fast! Head... going... to explode!

Aaaaaarrrrrgghhhhh!!!!!!!!Dead

ShockedWhat a senseless waste of human life...

Wink

"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 26 2005 at 22:41
I would like to give progressive metal a glorious
beginning. Sort of a worldwide mixture. Starting with
the psychedelic side with Jimi Hendrix "Axis- Bold as
Love" from the US, blending with the more hard rock
side from the UK with Trapeze "Medusa" and
experimental side coming from german in Guru
Guru "UFO". All these elements seemed to need a
blending together as this was late 60s early early
70's.

Rush in 1976 with "2112" blending these core
elements together and producing a more refined
effort towards progressive metal. Lyrically being
slightly more regressive, as the afore mentioned
artists have more substance.

Sadly with the death of truly progressive music at
hand in the english speaking countries they created
a semi-progressive metal movement that would
sweep adolescent america, canada, and england.

Its end is far from over as death metal has gone
progressive symphonic in Sweden only to revive a
slightly unorthodox beast. Visions strike me of Iron
Maiden, Judas Priest, Metallica,etc with the London
Symphony Orchestra.

Next up Tool and the Philadelphia Philharmonic.
Has anyone heard the new Symphonic Tool CD?



it gets pretty ridiculous.

Edited by DallasBryan
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sigod View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2005 at 05:12
Holdsworth's Metal Fatigue is very proto prog/metal but todays technology has enabled bands to reach much lower sounds on guitar that were originally only available to keyboard players and Taurus Bass Pedals (god bless 'em).

Over the years Metal had obtained two important weapons in it's arsenal:

1. The seven string  guitar - which gave players access to much lower tones than before.



...and the Whammy Pedal by Digitec which can artificially 'lower' the note of your guitar and set up harmonies which fatten the sound considerably.



Both had been used extensively in the Nu Metal genre for years and have gradually permiated into the surrounding styles. Many prog metal bands use either or both in building the bottom end of their sound up and helps them add weight and power to great effect.



Edited by sigod
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2005 at 08:15

I think Prog Metal started with Black Sabbath..

Especially 'Sabbath Bloody Sabbath' and 'Sabotage'

Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2005 at 18:39
Umm no I don't think so. Prog metal came much more from metal than it did from prog.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 27 2005 at 19:40
Originally posted by chorus of one chorus of one wrote:

Umm no I don't think so. Prog metal came much more from metal than it did from prog.
'splain....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2005 at 00:29
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

I think Prog Metal started with Black Sabbath..[/
P]

Especially 'Sabbath Bloody Sabbath' and 'Sabotage'



I agree, along with Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin.

I think also alot of Prog
"Metal's" Influences came in the early 80's with bands like Iron Maiden,
early Metallica, and Queensryche.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2005 at 02:55
I agree with Ivan. Uriah Heep were definitely the pioneers of Prog Metal, ever since their debut in 1970. One could say Deep Purple had some input around this time as well, but Uriah Heep has always been heralded by many fans and critics as having kick started Prog Metal. Listen to their debut, Look at Yourself, and Salisbury to get an idea!
And Jesus said unto John, "come forth and receive eternal life..."
Unfortunately, John came fifth and was stuck with a toaster.
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