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chorus of one 
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 Posted: January 28 2005 at 23:01 |
 Reed Lover wrote:
I think that you can consider Sabbath, Uriah Heep, Zep and Purple as the starting point for Prog Metal- even though they developed their style at the same time as prog was developing and they were essentially blues-rock bands. All these bands were always more than just metal bands and certainly "went for it" musically. |
I don't see it. Those bands are hard rock with occasional progressive tendencies. For me their style doesn't compare to either the prog side or the metal side of prog-metal.
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Reed Lover
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Posted: January 28 2005 at 14:56 |
Edited by Reed Lover
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Dan Bobrowski
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Posted: January 28 2005 at 11:10 |
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What we need are timelines. I don't own any of these albums, but maybe we can start listing release dates of albums which fused metal and prog.
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goose
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Posted: January 28 2005 at 10:43 |
chorus of one wrote:
Seems obvious to me, just take a listen
to most of the modern prog metal bands. They don't
sound anything like Uriah Heep or U.K., but I can usually
draw comparisons with Iron Maiden or Metallica. To me, it's not
progressive rock mixed with metal elements, it's metal mixed with
progressive elements. A lot of them are fairly straightforward metal,
only with a few additions (symphonic keyboards, longer songs, more
solos etc) that give them the progressive label. |
The way I see it, the first wave of prog metal bands in the 80s sounded
nothing like prog rock. To me it sounds like the only reason they were
labelled prog is because they had the same mindset of pushing the
boundaries of metal as prog bands in the 70s did of pushing the
boundaries of rock. However a lot of the metal bands that are called
progressive I find quite banal; they may progressive because they shove
in the odd "neoclassical" riff and put loads of keyboard arpeggios in,
but often it's nothing that a few hundred other bands wouldn't have
come up with. The modern metal bands I hear true progressive elements
in are the more oddball ones like Voivod, Mr. Bungle, Estradasphere,
(maybe Orthrelm although I'd place them more in the avant-garde) and
some of the more deeply operatic rooted ones (by which I mean, the ones
that aren't
a) just normal power metal with the same old "neoclassical" riffs and then a high pitched singer, or
b) a gothy band with the same old vocals from one clean male singer,
one growling male singer and one clean female singer) like Arcturus or
Devil Doll (maybe not metal, but damn good).
Then there's the entirely different idea of tech metal, which I usually
don't find very progressive but often like a lot, like Spastic Ink,
Behold... the Arctopus, Canvas Solaris, Orthrelm again.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: January 28 2005 at 10:35 |
| Seems obvious to me, just take a listen to most of the modern prog metal bands. They don't sound anything like Uriah Heep or U.K., but I can usually draw comparisons with Iron Maiden or Metallica. |
That's absolutely right Chorus of One, but even worst, actual prog/metal bands lack of thecoherence of the early ones, excuse me Dream Theater fans, but I still can't find something I like from this band except Jordan Rudess keyboards.
I hope they will even sound as Iron Maiden, who had very much prog' elements even when is not really a prog' metal band, songs like Rhyme of the Ancient Matriner or The Trooper sound more coherent than actual progressive metal bands.
Iván
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chorus of one
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Posted: January 28 2005 at 04:39 |
danbo wrote:
chorus of one wrote:
Umm no I don't think so. Prog metal came much more from metal than it did from prog. |
'splain.... |
Seems obvious to me, just take a listen to most of the modern prog metal bands. They don't sound anything like Uriah Heep or U.K., but I can usually draw comparisons with Iron Maiden or Metallica. To me, it's not progressive rock mixed with metal elements, it's metal mixed with progressive elements. A lot of them are fairly straightforward metal, only with a few additions (symphonic keyboards, longer songs, more solos etc) that give them the progressive label.
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Rob The Good
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Posted: January 28 2005 at 02:55 |
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I agree with Ivan. Uriah Heep were definitely the pioneers of Prog Metal, ever since their debut in 1970. One could say Deep Purple had some input around this time as well, but Uriah Heep has always been heralded by many fans and critics as having kick started Prog Metal. Listen to their debut, Look at Yourself, and Salisbury to get an idea!
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And Jesus said unto John, "come forth and receive eternal life..."
Unfortunately, John came fifth and was stuck with a toaster.
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Azrael2112
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Posted: January 28 2005 at 00:29 |
Blacksword wrote:
I think Prog Metal started with Black Sabbath..[/
P]
Especially 'Sabbath Bloody Sabbath' and 'Sabotage' |
I agree, along with Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin. I think also alot of Prog "Metal's" Influences came in the early 80's with bands like Iron Maiden, early Metallica, and Queensryche.
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Dan Bobrowski
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Posted: January 27 2005 at 19:40 |
chorus of one wrote:
Umm no I don't think so. Prog metal came much more from metal than it did from prog. |
'splain....
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chorus of one
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Posted: January 27 2005 at 18:39 |
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Umm no I don't think so. Prog metal came much more from metal than it did from prog.
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Blacksword
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Posted: January 27 2005 at 08:15 |
I think Prog Metal started with Black Sabbath..
Especially 'Sabbath Bloody Sabbath' and 'Sabotage'
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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sigod
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Posted: January 27 2005 at 05:12 |
Holdsworth's Metal Fatigue is very proto prog/metal but todays
technology has enabled bands to reach much lower sounds on guitar that
were originally only available to keyboard players and Taurus Bass
Pedals (god bless 'em).
Over the years Metal had obtained two important weapons in it's arsenal:
1. The seven string guitar - which gave players access to much lower tones than before.
...and the Whammy Pedal by Digitec which can artificially 'lower' the
note of your guitar and set up harmonies which fatten the sound
considerably.
Both had been used extensively in the Nu Metal genre for years and
have gradually permiated into the surrounding styles. Many prog metal
bands use either or both in building the bottom end of their sound up
and helps them add weight and power to great effect.
Edited by sigod
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I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
- Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill
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DallasBryan
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Posted: January 26 2005 at 22:41 |
I would like to give progressive metal a glorious beginning. Sort of a worldwide mixture. Starting with the psychedelic side with Jimi Hendrix "Axis- Bold as Love" from the US, blending with the more hard rock side from the UK with Trapeze "Medusa" and experimental side coming from german in Guru Guru "UFO". All these elements seemed to need a blending together as this was late 60s early early 70's. Rush in 1976 with "2112" blending these core elements together and producing a more refined effort towards progressive metal. Lyrically being slightly more regressive, as the afore mentioned artists have more substance. Sadly with the death of truly progressive music at hand in the english speaking countries they created a semi-progressive metal movement that would sweep adolescent america, canada, and england. Its end is far from over as death metal has gone progressive symphonic in Sweden only to revive a slightly unorthodox beast. Visions strike me of Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Metallica,etc with the London Symphony Orchestra. Next up Tool and the Philadelphia Philharmonic. Has anyone heard the new Symphonic Tool CD?  it gets pretty ridiculous.
Edited by DallasBryan
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Peter
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Posted: January 26 2005 at 22:19 |
Never mind the beginning -- WHEN WILL IT END?
 Must... stop... the pain! Guitars... too distorted! Drums... too fast! Head... going... to explode!
Aaaaaarrrrrgghhhhh!!!!!!!!
 What a senseless waste of human life...
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
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dropForge
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Posted: January 26 2005 at 21:27 |
U.K. the dawn of prog-metal? I don't see how. Most people usually argue for certain albums or songs by Heep or Purple. I feel Rush's 2112 is a pretty obvious roadmark. Rush aren't a prog-metal band, per se (though on Vapor Trails they practically are, on certain songs), but the "2112" suite is a serious candidate for an early prog-metal tune (remember, this was '76). Somebody (not on this board) also brought up Yes' "Machine Messiah," and I find that an interesting choice, much more so than anything by U.K.
'Sides, pre-SFAM Dream Theater always sounded like Rush-meets-Kansas-meets-Iron Maiden to me. And Fates Warning predates DT.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: January 26 2005 at 20:46 |
I believe Uriah Heep was the Dawning of Prog/Metal, they were working in this style since Look at Yourself (1971) with their first epic July Morning and complex tracks as Look at Yourself or Tears in my Eyes that has most extraordinaire vocal work I ever heard.
Later the genre was developed with Demons and Wixzards and Magician's Birthdat (1972)
If I'm not wrong this is 7 years before UK.
Iván
Edited by ivan_2068
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wallace
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Posted: January 26 2005 at 20:36 |
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Very good suggestion about "Crazy Horse" by Osmonds.
...
The largest record convention in the US is in Austin,Texas. Wallace heard a story that went like this:
These bigtime collectors every year ,after the record show, get together to play rare vinyl psyche discoveries they had during the last year. One guy puts on a record and everyone's jaw drops to the floor.
"Whats THAT?" They all demand in unison. "Man, thats the real sh*t. Feckin' far out!"
Then the guy drops the bombshell- "Its a lesser-known track by early Osmonds."
All the pros go white in the face.
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Oracle
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Posted: January 26 2005 at 18:52 |
yes as i say osmond were first proto progmetal group.very famos in seventies decade but not carry on wiyth this style because they cannot through the religion they like.Crazy horses very much liked in my country at disco. all young men dance to this.  My country is greenland, we do not have so much of the rock music
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I see the future.Tomorrow is cancelled.
Thorgeir Vifilsson
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Dan Bobrowski
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Posted: January 26 2005 at 18:48 |
maani wrote:
Danbo:
It is an interesting theory, and probably not without some merit. It would be interesting for someone (hint, hint... ) to take the time to research this a little. It could be done simply by figuring out which "prog metal" bands and album were chronologically "first," and then developing the theory from there.
Peace. |
Personally, I'm not a prog metal kinda guy. I thought Gatot's point to be interesting.
Who was the FIRST actual PROG METAL act? Who coined the term?
Did anyone predate Dream Theater that consider themselves PROG METAL?
Answers, dammit, I want answers. Pete?  
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Oracle
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Posted: January 26 2005 at 18:17 |
richardh wrote:
Mid to late seventies Anglo/Welsh band Lone Star were more significant.They latched onto the prog side of Led Zep's music.Rush were also important.UK had little to do with prog metal.I don't hear anything on their two studio albums that screams 'prog metal' to be honest.
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a big infleunce to this was the playing of crazy horses on mainstream tv by osmonds.This showed guitar and keyboard in a heavy style to mass audiance around world.i think this statrted the progmetal style.
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I see the future.Tomorrow is cancelled.
Thorgeir Vifilsson
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Was U.K. the dawning of Prog Metal?
