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BilboBaggins
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Topic: Saga - Prog or not? Comments are now allo Posted: July 07 2006 at 08:50 |
Whether you are a Saga fan or not, please give this some thought!
There are no winners or losers in this poll!...smiles
Many thanks
Edited by BilboBaggins - July 07 2006 at 19:11
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Thoughtfullness
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BilboBaggins
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Posted: July 07 2006 at 19:14 |
Interesting voting...quite revealing
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Thoughtfullness
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
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Posted: July 08 2006 at 11:02 |
notice no-one is willing to actually say why they voted yes
I chose Related for the obvious reasons of the other thread
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let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: July 08 2006 at 11:05 |
Ok, to those in favor of voting "Prog Rock": Which is Saga's most progressive album? I'll listen to that, and then I'll vote.
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Masque
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Posted: July 08 2006 at 11:47 |
I think they are pop prog, since there isn`t pop prog (more pop than prog) I`ll go with prog related
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Trickster F.
Prog Reviewer
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Posted: July 08 2006 at 11:52 |
Are they related to Prog-METAL? I kinda figured that because Mike said something about himself voting for Saga... In that case, I'll gladly listen to their proggiest album myself as well.
-- Ivan
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earlyprog
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Neo / Heavy Teams
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Posted: July 08 2006 at 11:58 |
I voted Prog Rock as I'm not sure whether they are prog-related, neo-prog or Art Rock. Notwithsatnding the subgenre they are prog rock!
I tend to see them as a precursor for neo-prog. A "New-prog" subgenre (meaning post-punk/post-Then-There-Were-Three) would have covered both Saga and neo-prog.
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: July 08 2006 at 12:01 |
ivansfr0st wrote:
Are they related to Prog-METAL? I kinda figured that because Mike said something about himself voting for Saga... In that case, I'll gladly listen to their proggiest album myself as well.
-- Ivan |
I don't think they are related in any way to prog metal ...
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Trickster F.
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Posted: July 08 2006 at 12:06 |
You mentioned something about voting on them as I thought that it maybe would be a PMT activity thing.
-- Ivan
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ANDREW
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Posted: July 08 2006 at 14:46 |
earlyprog wrote:
I voted Prog Rock as I'm not sure whether they are prog-related, neo-prog or Art Rock. Notwithsatnding the subgenre they are prog rock!
I tend to see them as a precursor for neo-prog. A "New-prog" subgenre (meaning post-punk/post-Then-There-Were-Three) would have covered both Saga and neo-prog. |
I agree with you.
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horza
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 31 2005
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 2530
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Posted: July 08 2006 at 14:56 |
Definately prog - Humble Stance and The Perfectionist are classic prog tracks IMO
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Originally posted by darkshade:
Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.
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Philéas
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Posted: July 08 2006 at 17:48 |
Hardly even prog-related, so I didn't vote.
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Zac M
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Posted: July 10 2006 at 01:27 |
Only heard one album (Heads or Tails), it's not even really PR, but I won't vote-can't judge a band on one album, but I have to say "Heads or Tails" has put me off from buying anymore Saga.
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"Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression."
-Merleau-Ponty
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bhikkhu
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Posted: July 10 2006 at 02:07 |
I have to admit that I was shocked to see them here at all. I only knew them from the hit they had back in the '80s. I never gave them much thought after that. A buddy of mine gave me a copy of their new album to listen to. To my surprise, I found it quite proggy. It's nothing earth shattering, but it's a fun listen. Based on that, I can be comfortable with prog related.
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BigBrownBear
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Posted: July 11 2006 at 13:14 |
Just listen to the first 4 or 5 albums, plus several since then including those after the band reunited, and listen carefully. Take away what appears to be a 'pop rock' drum sound (although closer instpection reveals some subtleties that may surprise some) and listen to the escellent keyboard and guitar work. They should be expecially congratulated for breaking the mold that prog had conformed to up to the end of the seventies. They evolved where others followed suit. Please to take those 'Proghead' blinkers off and see them for what they are. Think outside the box for once and remember that Prog is not stagnant. Saga were the first to do what Asia, It Bites, Marillion, and many others did much later. It seems obvious to me that given the voting in this survey, there is a general feeling that to move them to Prog Related was the wrong decision. We are over categorising and the spirit of Prog is suffering...let's keep it simple and have a General Prog category and do away with the Prog Related category...why are we recognising near misses anyway?...that's surely not what we are here to do.
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earlyprog
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Posted: July 11 2006 at 16:46 |
^Saga in the right context
Well put, BigBrownBear.
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
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Posted: July 11 2006 at 16:57 |
I voted progrock. Now that I've discovered so many 'real' prog bands I should have classified them under prog related maybe, but in the eighties when I started to discover prog, there wasn't so much prog rock to discover for the average prog fan in the days without Internet and almost unknown prog magazines, and Saga was one of those bands which drew my attention as a representative of prog music.
I'm surprised how unpopular they've become through the years . Not many people discuss them on PA.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
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Posted: July 12 2006 at 07:01 |
BigBrownBear wrote:
Just listen to the first 4 or 5 albums, plus several since then including those after the band reunited, and listen carefully. Take away what appears to be a 'pop rock' drum sound (although closer instpection reveals some subtleties that may surprise some) and listen to the escellent keyboard and guitar work. They should be expecially congratulated for breaking the mold that prog had conformed to up to the end of the seventies. They evolved where others followed suit. Please to take those 'Proghead' blinkers off and see them for what they are.
Think outside the box for once and remember that Prog is not stagnant. Saga were the first to do what Asia, It Bites, Marillion, and many others did much later. >>> agreed that they do belong in the archives
It seems obvious to me that given the voting in this survey, there is a general feeling that to move them to Prog Related was the wrong decision. >>> far from me the idea of blatant cheating but this poll was not yet one day old and the score was 12-0 with no-one having posted <<<<< since my first post (the second in this thread) the score is now 10-12. Sounds fishy to you?
We are over categorising and the spirit of Prog is suffering...let's keep it simple and have a General Prog category and do away with the Prog Related category...why are we recognising near misses anyway?...that's surely not what we are here to do.
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Edited by Sean Trane - July 12 2006 at 07:02
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let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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terramystic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 02 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 781
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Posted: July 14 2006 at 07:06 |
a lot of Saga's albums are neo prog --> prog rock
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lucas
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Posted: July 14 2006 at 07:52 |
Zac M wrote:
Only heard one album (Heads or Tails), it's not even really PR, but I won't vote-can't judge a band on one album, but I have to say "Heads or Tails" has put me off from buying anymore Saga. |
 It's one of their best albums, with some really impressive grooves.
Coming back to the poll, Saga had many identities during their long career, and I am not sure if they are prog or not. Synth-pop would be a more appropriate term to qualify their music. They began as a "symph" prog band with three landmark albums, then included some electronic drumming in their music and the sound of eighties' pop, then make the bass sound more present giving them a hard-rock sound in the nineties up till now.
I am a huge fan of their early works up to 'The security of illusion'. I am not very fond of their last albums, although 'Trust' is not that bad (but why these odd voices by the keyboardist ?). Some people find disappointing the second Sadler's solo album (which features drummer exrtraordinaire Chris Frazier who played on Vai's acclamed 'Passion and warfare') but I find it to be the best work released by a Saga-related artist.
If you want to discover the prog side of Saga, check the "phase one" and "generation 13" albums.
However, nevermind the label you can stick to Saga's music, they play good music and that's what matters.
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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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