Why classic prog faded?

^^^  Apart from that, if we do draw some such invisible line between 70s prog rock and other rock music, his opinion is highly generalized.   If we talk about guitarists, prog rock guitarists would only be better than rock guitarists as a general rule if you'd be include essentially fusion guitarists like McLaughlin or Holdsworth.   Guitarists like Uli Roth and Michael Schenker had wonderful technique and shouldn't be condescended on just because they play electrifying solos in simple rock songs and didn't do much of the fancy acoustic stuff.    Not to mention the man who trumped them all - Eddie Van Halen.    There remains the matter of Fripp but not many prog rock guitarists were as good as him in the 70s.  Hackett may have improved his technique over the years but in that time period I doubt he was a match for Fripp.  So it doesn't follow that if Fripp was a wizard, so was everybody else in prog - at the very least, varying levels of wizardry would be involved. 

And I know of no male prog rock singer from the 70s who could match Dio's glorious tenor highs.   Actually, Ray Gillen is the only other rock singer I have heard who could match the power and quality of say the verses of Neon Knights.  There are singers who have ventured further into stratospheric territory than him, but the strength of his high Cs remains something that has to be heard to be believed.  But of course, Rainbow is prog related. 


Edited by rogerthat - November 23 2012 at 12:00

progbethyname wrote: Surrealist wrote: The failure to manifest odd metering, key changes and other time tested tools of the trade into musical sensibility of some sort is where most of the neo prog bands I have heard are failing to make the impact they could with the listener, whether it be a Prog fan or not.  I am sure this is why my wife fell asleep at the Dream Theater concert.  Technical showboating rocked her to sleep. I totally disagree. Odd metering is incredibly previlent in Neo prog. Great complex rhythms that are oddly timed are surely demonstrated in drummers like PAUL COOK(IQ) MICK POINTER(ARENA) and DANNY CAREY(tool). I think your not exploring the genre properly and are making half fast comments cause you possibly believe what your saying. Neo prog is an exceptional genre and from a creative stand point it's very much on par with what the 70's prog movement had to offer. It's just different my friend. Not better and certainly not worse.

Mike Oldfield

I really find a hard time believing this is not good musically.  Yeah, it is not a song per se, but that is not what it is supposed to be.  They are entertaining me through being nuts on their instruments.  And I think it took many hours of dedication to do that.

There has been so many posts in this thread so maybe I've got a bit confused and interpreted Surrealist's the wrong way, but what I think he's saying is that the 70s bands were all completely new sounding, whithout a hint of earlier music, compared to modern prog that are aping earlier prog bands.

 Just to take an example from my own experience, I'd like to share my first encounter with Yes. I actually thought they sounded like a hybrid between The Moody Blues, The Beatles and CSN&Y, only a bit faster.
And then, the much revered Crimson King, well that was very Moody Bluesy in my ears, except for Schitzoid Man, that was truely new to me, the way it broke down in the middle, hadn't heard that before.

And what's this hype about odd time signatures? I'm pretty sure that Roger Waters didn't lose sleep over the 7/4, the song just came to him, and the guitar solo in 4/4 just came to Gilmour as he was playing and developing the song.

Nothing is new under the sun, Turn, Turn, Turn.


Edited by silverpot - November 23 2012 at 14:32

Prog faded long before DT broke out in the early 90s. 

Surrealist wrote: That DT clip is exactly the point.  It is so overdone, absolutely tasteless nonsense, no song, no intention other than just showboating, creates no mood other than boredom and if you listen closely, it's just the same formula being repeated over and over.  If one wants to know why prog faded.. this is it.

 

The DT medley really is a cry for help.  A plea for understanding from us all ...that this is not the direction music should go when in the hands of any band in a position to influence a musical movement or that has any kind of an audience.  It would have fit nicely into the equally brilliant film "Spinal Tap"

I am hard pressed to think of a guitarist I enjoy listening to more than Ritchie Blackmore.  If the potential of rock music is 60% composition, 30% orchestration and execution, Blackmore easily filled in the 9% with fretboard virtuosity.  It's the last 1% that most shed masters focus on like Malmsteen... that leave 99% of the music unaccountable for.

Finding Dio and recruiting him and his Elf mates was brilliant.  The first Rainbow album is a masterpiece.  Very artsy, very well recorded, tasteful performances.. and Dio's vocals really run the gamet of what he could do from Man on the "Sliver Mountain" to "Temple of the King".  It's unfortunate we didn't hear another couple albums from that original lineup with Gary Driscoll on the kit.  There was a lot more dynamic in his playing and articulation than Cozy Powell who came later.  The instrumental cover "Still I'm Sad" shows how powerful a rock instrumental can be.. even Driscolls cowbell ride work through the song was very tastefully done.  Disappointing to hear that left out on the live version with Powell.

Few rock singers have ever sung lyrics with such conviction as Dio.  Blackmore up until the 80's really did things right and kept it real.  A few bad pop attempts and now he is doing acoustic traditional music.  It's a nice progression for him.

Great lead guitarists use their chops to create melody and further embellish.  Howe on "Awaken", Hackett on "Firth of Fifth", Van Halen "Eruption" Schenker "Lights Out", Roth "Catch a Train" Blackmore "Highway Star" Page "Since I've been Loving You"  Jeff Beck "Because we Ended as Lovers" Robin Trower "Day Dream" .... the quality is in the note selection.. that's the magic.. the chops enable Schenker to play his epic "Rock Bottom".. .it's not the chops themselves, it's what you do with it, how that is articulated, and presented from not only the melodic line but the tone and emotion put into vibrato etc.  This what made those guys great. 

What it is not... is playing it clean into a digital recorder, then sitting down with the producer or sound engineer and trying out 300 plugins to run it through and pick out a sound that everyone is happy with. 

Great music must be performed in the moment.. not during mixdown or post production.  The neo guitar kids need to get this straight right away.