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Topic ClosedWere things really better in the 70s?

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bucka001 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2015 at 17:50
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by condor condor wrote:


Were things really better in the 70s? I'm beginning to think so. I'm finding modern groups more polished but less innovative. Also, the strong jazz element seems to have been left behind.. I still appreciate modern prog but listening to it seems like a circus compared to the music of the 70s



The only bands I truly enjoy which have ditched the psychedelia and jazz are St. Elmo's Fire and Porcupine Tree...



I'd say that they were.  Rock concerts in the 1970s were like huge festivals - crowds of stoned hippies, billowing clouds of pot-smoke, and the bands were young, strong, into their music and on top of their game.  They were joyous events, not just concerts. 

I saw Yes on the CTTE, Relayer and GFTO tours, ELP on BSS tour, King Crimson on LTIA tour, and Jethro Tull on TAAB tour.  And many more.  Tons of high-energy fusion from Weather Report, Brand X etc.  Also, too much hard rock to name - Led Zep, Deep Purple, Queen etc.

Since the '70s, I've seen Dream Theater, Porcupine Tree and a few other modern groups, and I find most of them wanting.  Old guys can still play, I just saw Anderson-Ponty Band and they put on a great show.  I'll see Steve Hackett in December and look forward to it.  One exception I've found is Scale the Summit, I quite like them!  I'm still searching for some legit 21st Century jazz-rock fusion that approaches Brand X and Mahavishnu Orchestra.

Newer players don't seem to have the inspiration or energy that the old guys did back in the day.  I sense that many modern musicians are just going through the paces.  And don't get me started on all this damn dancing onstage!!  Grumpy old Chuck, scowling at all the fat-bottomed girls on the modern stage....



Cstack, if you're in Chicago (like me) were you at the Magma show at Martyrs a few months ago? Absolutely, jaw-droppingly stunning. Or did you catch VdGG at The Abbey a few years ago? Another good 'un. Never thought I'd see either of those groups in Chicago, we're pretty lucky.

Edited by bucka001 - November 07 2015 at 17:51
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2015 at 18:02
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

in my opinion they were. the freshness has been taken out of the music.
 
Also, people weren't so fixated on trying to cop every sound and style laid down by the '70s bands and cobbling it together into a "one-size-fits-all" pastiche.
 
Also, one never had to worry about maintaining a conversation with somebody whose gaze is constantly locked onto their phone. LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2015 at 18:12
Teenagers spend an average of nine hours a day staring at one kind of screen or another.
People in their twenties, about six hours a day.
In the seventies if someone was in another world it was usually because they were stoned.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2015 at 18:46
Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:

Teenagers spend an average of nine hours a day staring at one kind of screen or another.
People in their twenties, about six hours a day.
In the seventies if someone was in another world it was usually because they were stoned.
And if they were stoned, chances are they were listening to albums of Floyd, Sabbath, Zeppelin, Genesis, Tull, King Crimson, Yes, ELP, Deep Purple, Bowie, etc. The longer the songs, the better.
 
And in regards to longer playing times, the concerts were longer and better as well. No commercially-sponsored, $10 a beer, $100 a ticket, 90 minute knock-offs. I recall a riot at Cobo Arena in Detroit when Alice Cooper didn't perform an encore. People started piling wooden chairs in the middle of the arena and tried to start them on fire. LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2015 at 19:07
In the early seventies I saw many arena sized concerts for $5, $6 and $7. 
Those were big name concerts with three bands.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2015 at 19:26
Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:

In the early seventies I saw many arena sized concerts for $5, $6 and $7. 
Those were big name concerts with three bands.
 
Exactly right. Anyone could afford great tickets to any show. And all you had to do was grab a sleeping bag, a lawn chair, a guitar and a few beers and sit in line in a parking lot over night to get tickets.Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2015 at 19:29
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:

In the early seventies I saw many arena sized concerts for $5, $6 and $7. 
Those were big name concerts with three bands.
 
Exactly right. Anyone could afford great tickets to any show. And all you had to do was grab a sleeping bag, a lawn chair, a guitar and a few beers and sit in line in a parking lot over night to get tickets.Wink

This is why I don't agree with the person who said that what has changed is the audience. No, the audience is still there; what's changed is the economics. Hardly anyone can make a living anymore. There was one musician recently - his band is popular, they sell out concerts wherever they play in Europe and the US - who talked about how he has like twenty dollars in his savings account. It's just unreal, what's happening today...


Edited by jude111 - November 07 2015 at 19:31
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2015 at 19:40
I always bought from Ticket Masters.
I have some programs and a few ticket stubs in my music room;
Rolling Stones at the Forum - $5.50
Beck, Bogert & Appice at the Long Beach Arena - $5.00
Ten Years After at the Forum - $5.50
Johnny Winter at the Hollywood Palladium - $6.50

We did hang out in the parking lot and had a few beers and whatever before the show.
Things were pretty wide open at concerts back then.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2015 at 20:18
The only good modern prog is the stuff that sounds like 70s but with original melodies. But there's not much of it and it's not as good. So just keep looking for more 70s then

Edited by dr prog - November 07 2015 at 20:19
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2015 at 20:23
Originally posted by bucka001 bucka001 wrote:

 

Cstack, if you're in Chicago (like me) were you at the Magma show at Martyrs a few months ago? Absolutely, jaw-droppingly stunning. Or did you catch VdGG at The Abbey a few years ago? Another good 'un. Never thought I'd see either of those groups in Chicago, we're pretty lucky.

Hi!  Yes, I'm in Chicago, but missed both of those shows!  Grrrr!  Can't seem to get them all! 

I just saw Anderson-Ponty Band at the Arcada Theater in St. Charles, IL and it was great!  I'll be seeing Steve Hackett at the same venue in December. 

We sure have a lot of great prog in our area!!  
 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2015 at 20:42
Originally posted by jude111 jude111 wrote:

This is why I don't agree with the person who said that what has changed is the audience. No, the audience is still there; what's changed is the economics. Hardly anyone can make a living anymore. There was one musician recently - his band is popular, they sell out concerts wherever they play in Europe and the US - who talked about how he has like twenty dollars in his savings account. It's just unreal, what's happening today...

This may be a bad assumption, but I believe you were referring to my comment.

I would still argue that the changes in the audience has had a major impact on the changes in the music industry.  As I said before, audiences in the 70s were more willing to invest their money in their music.  They BELIEVED in it.  However, tastes and expectations have changed considerably since then, and I think that has had a major impact on the things your talking about.

Because people don't believe in music like they used to, they don't value it the same way.  Now, people don't even want to OWN music, just simply stream it from their phones (or pirate it).  They see music and concerts as just another alternative to watching Netflix or playing Xbox.  And because these attitudes have changes, they don't invest as much money into albums or merch or shows, which means the concert promoters have to jack up the ticket prices to make their money back (and I'm sure inflation isn't helping).  In short, it's harder for the artists to maintain a living because audiences don't care as much about the music they're making.  We should treat the success of musicians in the 70s as an anomaly, not a baseline.

Basically, I'm saying that the economics of the music industry is considerably dependent upon the tastes and expectations of the audiences, which are in turn dependent upon the shifts and changes of the societies they live in.  The musical optimism of the 70s gave way to the commercialism of the 80s, the cynicism of the 90s, and the apathy of the 2000s.

Or at least, so I see it, in my worthless, unqualified opinion.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2015 at 21:16
If you are listening to music intended to mimic music of a bygone era it will be stale, of course. There is plenty of great, energetic, experimental and exciting music that is being made today but most of it lies in a no-mans land where it isn't generally considered prog or at least purists will argue that it isn't... Because it isn't stale enough? Of course it won't be created in the same mold as Yes or Genesis but if you can try something new I think you will be pleasantly surprised.


Bands like Maps and Atlases, Deerhoof, Battles, Joanna Newsom, Thundercat, Punch Brothers, Supersilent, Mylets and many more scratch that same itch for complex, interesting, high quality music that I used to use 70's prog for.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2015 at 23:25
It seems that Vangelis had objections on the music industry even back in 1976:
 
Quote How does Vangelis view the musical changes he has gone through since Aphrodite’s Child and his solo-LP "Earth"?
Vangelis: "Three years ago already I could have made a record like Heaven and Hell. Technically speaking I was ready for it. Why I didn’t do it back then? Because the pop-market wasn’t ready for it at that moment. Some of the recordings I made 10 years ago are musically and technically speaking more complex than Heaven and Hell. The problem you have to deal with as a musician and creator of music is that you have to fight against a market, a record-company and a world for brainwashed people. As creator or performer of pop-music in 1976 you very quickly become the victim of the economic powers of this world who have meanwhile also taken over pop-music. In the sixties the creation and performance of pop-music was a form of (social) protest. Now the creation and performance of pop-music have become big business and most pop-musicians are photo-models in disguise who behave like mindless marionettes in the service of the public and the record-companies. "
 


Edited by Svetonio - November 07 2015 at 23:25
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2015 at 00:09
^ What a bitter, depraved, bullsh*t thing to say.  "Hey man, I'm a gifted musician and most of the world doesn't care and they're all fools and so are the record companies...and your little dog, too".   No, Mr. V, the world doesn't care because they'd rather not listen to poofy electronic New Age.   Yes Mr. V, The Police and Van Halen and U2 have sold more records than you.   You're a highly successful composer with a career many would die for.   Deal with it and stop whining.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2015 at 00:59
Originally posted by jude111 jude111 wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:

In the early seventies I saw many arena sized concerts for $5, $6 and $7. 
Those were big name concerts with three bands.
 
Exactly right. Anyone could afford great tickets to any show. And all you had to do was grab a sleeping bag, a lawn chair, a guitar and a few beers and sit in line in a parking lot over night to get tickets.Wink

This is why I don't agree with the person who said that what has changed is the audience. No, the audience is still there; what's changed is the economics. Hardly anyone can make a living anymore. There was one musician recently - his band is popular, they sell out concerts wherever they play in Europe and the US - who talked about how he has like twenty dollars in his savings account. It's just unreal, what's happening today...
I presume you chaps have heard of inflation... In the USA a $6 ticket in 1973 is the equivalent of a $32 ticket today. I've just checked on Live Nation and I can get a ticket for The Cult & Primal Scream at the Hollywood Palladium for $25.

It is much worse here in the UK where a £6 ticket then would be the equivalent to a £71 ticket today, however tickets to see SWilson at The Apollo next January start at £55.

Of course the average weekly wage has changed from $171 to $940 over that time but $171 in 1973 is the equivalent to $916 today so earnings are pretty much the same.

It's not ticket priced that have gone up with respect to earnings, but our perception of their value.

Where the artists are losing out is on album sales, an album in 1973 cost £2.50, that's the equivalent of £29.50 today, yet album today retails at less than half that so they have to sell twice as much to break even.


It really was not better in the 70s.
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2015 at 01:07
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

in my opinion they were. the freshness has been taken out of the music. everything has to be "perfect" now, which in essence means "boring". the only thing I really still like are some live albums, but modern studio albums usually bore me because everything is sterilely clean


That's definitely a factor.

When electricity invaded music (in the 50's for rock and in the 60's for jazz and folk), a whole new continent was discovered, furthered even more with the electronic (synths) apparitions in the 70's with the likes of Tomita, Tangerine Dream Wendy Carlos, etc....

Within two decades, the whole continent was explored and chared and path beatened , grounds broken. Sure there is still the occasional music valley that escaped


Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Yes, it was better. And you could also have sex with any number of people and contract nothing that a shot of penicillin wouldn't cure.



mmmmhhh!!!... I don't know how old you are, but outside the disease issues (clap abounded in the 70's - never moreso than during the next few years after the Summer of Love), the frequency of sex was not nearly great as it became in later decades. Sure compared to the 50's , this seemed so casual, but it wasn't as gratuitious as it became later (and I got plenty of pussy as a teenager)

 I'm still often astounded at  how quickly younger generations are jumping in the sack for pure joy and without much sentiments.

I was single a few years back, and I found that having sex with women of my generation was definitely not "as easy" than with women some 10 to 20 years younger than me, who even kind of initiated even on the first or second date.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2015 at 01:09
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

It really was not better in the 70s.

No, it wasn't.   But in our minds, certainly mine, the memories are lovely and halcyon and only the fun remains.   Rock still alive and thriving; Saturday Night Live in its youth; Double bills of bad exploitation flicks on weekend afternoons in sticky theaters; Running around the streets on warm summer evenings and then making it home to watch Mary Hartman,Mary Hartman followed by Fernwood Tonight and maybe an old Twilight Zone.

We were richer when we were poorer.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2015 at 01:19
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

It really was not better in the 70s.

No, it wasn't.   But in our minds, certainly mine, the memories are lovely and halcyon and only the fun remains.   Rock still alive and thriving; Saturday Night Live in its youth; Double bills of bad exploitation flicks on weekend afternoons in sticky theaters; Running around the streets on warm summer evenings and then making it home to watch Mary Hartman,Mary Hartman followed by Fernwood Tonight and maybe an old Twilight Zone.

We were richer when we were poorer.


Yeah, even nostalgia isn't what it used to be. 
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2015 at 01:27
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:

Teenagers spend an average of nine hours a day staring at one kind of screen or another.
People in their twenties, about six hours a day.
In the seventies if someone was in another world it was usually because they were stoned.
And if they were stoned, chances are they were listening to albums of Floyd, Sabbath, Zeppelin, Genesis, Tull, King Crimson, Yes, ELP, Deep Purple, Bowie, etc. The longer the songs, the better.
 


Another big cliché... Yes, screen were not as omnipresent as nowadays, but I don't think kids are less stoned than we were back then... the drug of choice may be different nowadays, but getting high to music is just as "in" as it was then.



Originally posted by history nerd history nerd wrote:

If you are listening to music intended to mimic music of a bygone era it will be stale, of course. There is plenty of great, energetic, experimental and exciting music that is being made today but most of it lies in a no-mans land where it isn't generally considered prog or at least purists will argue that it isn't... Because it isn't stale enough? Of course it won't be created in the same mold as Yes or Genesis but if you can try something new I think you will be pleasantly surprised.


Bands like Maps and Atlases, Deerhoof, Battles, Joanna Newsom, Thundercat, Punch Brothers, Supersilent, Mylets and many more scratch that same itch for complex, interesting, high quality music that I used to use 70's prog for.


I'd tend to agree with you with regards to "staleness" of music, though this hardly in only for prog: Oasis or Green Day were stale when they became big
But groundbeating or experimental music you speak of was relatively high-profile in the 70's compared to nowadays, so most kids had a chance to hear it if they were a tad curious... Despite a much greater offer, nowadays, the mainstream is so dominant that you really have to stray faraway to find it.

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

It really was not better in the 70s.

No, it wasn't.   But in our minds, certainly mine, the memories are lovely and halcyon and only the fun remains.   Rock still alive and thriving; Saturday Night Live in its youth; Double bills of bad exploitation flicks on weekend afternoons in sticky theaters; Running around the streets on warm summer evenings and then making it home to watch Mary Hartman,Mary Hartman followed by Fernwood Tonight and maybe an old Twilight Zone.

We were richer when we were poorer.

Yeah, even nostalgia isn't what it used to be. 


Exactly LOL...

Though you can easily imagine that today's kids will be just as nostalgic about their own youth as we are nowadays



Edited by Sean Trane - November 08 2015 at 01:31
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2015 at 01:37
.......are there no jokers on this website..........????
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