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Can Prog Be Prog Without Drums? |
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I prophesy disaster ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 31 2017 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 4621 |
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Sorry, your reply to my original statement made me think about the difference between rock & roll and rock when it occurred to me whether rock & roll lends itself to being progressive in the sense of progressive rock. |
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No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
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I prophesy disaster ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 31 2017 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 4621 |
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But in response to your original reply, what is it that makes a completely acoustic piece of music rock? |
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No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
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twosteves ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May 01 2007 Location: NYC/Rhinebeck Status: Offline Points: 4077 |
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of course no drums needed to be prog ---I like prog with a good rhythm section so probably won't be my fav--
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ReactioninG ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 26 2017 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 156 |
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I like the drums.
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ForestFriend ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February 23 2017 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 680 |
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Tubular Bells has very little drumming and I would say that's very successful as a prog album.
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Man With Hat ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team Joined: March 12 2005 Location: Neurotica Status: Offline Points: 166178 |
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It is really hard to be rock music without drums. I'm not going to say impossible, but really, really hard. I can't really think of an example. Although this does lead me to think what it would sound like if you take famous classic rock songs and eliminate the drum tracks. But that's a tangent...Anyway, if it's not rock, it can't be progressive rock.
That said, of course you can have progressive music without drums.
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
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Nogbad_The_Bad ![]() Forum & Site Admin Group ![]() ![]() RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 20371 |
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I personally find this statement (that I hear regularly here) ridiculous. I find loads of music I consider progressive rock that doesn't 'rock'. Progressive Rock is a broad genre categorization for a wide range of musical styles. Does Tangerine Dream rock? Does North Sea Radio Orchestra? Does Aranis?
Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - May 28 2018 at 18:51 |
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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The Dark Elf ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 12799 |
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I guess what would make you think that playing just acoustic is not rock? Again, I mentioned The Beatles' "Eleanor Rigby", which is devoid of all guitars, bass, keys and drums, and yet it is considered one of the finest rocks songs ever composed. Also, if one listens to the hundreds of folk-rock bands that were spawned from Bob Dylan's fertile acoustic womb, there are thousands of acoustic-based rock songs. The divergence from blues or rhythm and blues-based rock and roll that occurred when Dylan strapped on an electric at Monterrey was at first a folk/rock synthesis (as employed at the same time by The Byrds, Simon & Garfunkel and The Beatles), so "acoustic rock" has been a staple rock genre since the mid-60s, predating prog elements, but only by a short time (The Beatles were to incorporate acoustic guitar folk rock with strings on "Yesterday", and became even more adventurous on the Stockhausen-influenced strident and staccato strings on "Eleanor Rigby" and Eastern sitar on "Hide Your Love Away"). Humorously enough, an acoustic version of Simon & Garfunkel's "The Sound of Silence" appears on the album Wednesday Morning, 3 AM, and the electric version with drums is on the next album Sounds of Silence. Each has virtually the same vocal tracks, so is one rock and one is not? ![]() These early classical, Eastern and folk influences in rock then merged with the burgeoning psychedelic scene and psych folk was born (bands like the It's a Beautiful Day, Donovan, Incredible String Band, and Tim Buckley, along with Jefferson Airplane and the Moody Blues on occasion). By the late 60s/early 70s, true progressive folk-rock ran parallel with the primarily British 2nd Folk Revival (with folks like Renbourn, Jansch, Martin Carthy, Nick Drake and folk-rock bands like Fairport Convention and Steeleye Span). Prog folk would include Comus, Jan Dukes de Gray, Jethro Tull, and Renaissance, who combined both folk and classical motifs. Roy Harper had a foot in both camps, but an album like Stormcock is definitely progressive folk rock. Please listen to the song I provided earlier, "The Same Old Rock". It has multiple time signature changes, dense lyrics with a heightened sort of poetry that was a hallmark of folk rock since Dylan, classical influences, difficult chording and one hell of an instrumental section towards the end. Another instance from around the same time, Led Zeppelin's "Battle of Evermore" has no electric guitar, bass or drums. There is Jimmy Page on mandolin, John Paul Jones plays acoustic guitar and recorder (and an EMS VCS 3 that is used as a voice effect), and Robert Plant and Sandy Denny of Fairport are singing. Not a person here would say it was not a "rock song" because there are no electrics or drums. Jethro Tull has countless songs that employ just acoustic guitar and strings, like "Reasons for Waiting", just acoustic guitar and organ, such as "Sossity", long acoustic passages in Thick as a Brick and A Passion Play, or simply straight acoustic rock songs like "Solitaire", "One White Duck / 010 = Nothing at All", and "Salamander" that exhibits classic influences, blues, folk and rock in one concise 3 minute progressive package: By the way, don't ever say just two acoustic guitars can't rock: Edited by The Dark Elf - May 28 2018 at 21:06 |
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
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Walkscore ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February 16 2017 Location: Toronto, Canada Status: Offline Points: 231 |
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I agree that music can be progressive without it being 'rock'. I love progressive music of all kinds, whether rock or jazz or anything else.
As for the question regarding the drums, my own opinion is that there is a lot of great music being made with and without drums. However, I am myself not keen on drum *machines*. I would prefer to have no drums, than to have drum machines. Tangerine Dream is great with and without real drums. But I am not keen on their output with drum machines, just to take one example.
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progmatic ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 22 2009 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 1785 |
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To answer the question, of course it can.
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PROGMATIC
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Mortte ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: November 11 2016 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 5538 |
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I don´t think prog or music commonly needs any particural instrument. And in great folkprog there are not full drums, only percussions.
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BaldJean ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: May 28 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10377 |
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when drum machines came up in the 80s a lot of artists experimented with them (Peter Hammill and Amon Düül 2, for example), but it was only a short passing fad; they quickly noticed the limitations of them
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![]() A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
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TheH ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 18 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1152 |
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Frenetic Zetetic ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 09 2017 Location: Now Status: Offline Points: 9233 |
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Yes.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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SteveG ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20538 |
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ReactioninG ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: November 26 2017 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 156 |
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Can there be prog without musicians? That's a good question.
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BrufordFreak ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 25 2008 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 8005 |
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EXACTLY the artist/album I was thinking of when creating this post! Amazing!
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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
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BrufordFreak ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 25 2008 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 8005 |
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INTERESTING!!!
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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
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BrufordFreak ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 25 2008 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 8005 |
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This is the argument I was waiting for! The all-important "rock" determiner. I guess it's cuz part of me wishes this wonderful website/community could/would be more inclusive...a one-stop shop, if you will. And why not? It's bigger than any one person can ever exhaustively explore as it is, so why not go from the Kalamazoo College library to the Library of Congress? (Go big or stay home!)
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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
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BrufordFreak ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 25 2008 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 8005 |
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Nice post! But still I say, "THROW THEM ALL TOGETHER! Forget discrimination! We are all one! It's all music!"
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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
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