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al stewart prog or not ?

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richardh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2018 at 01:40
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I am constantly surprised that people have not heard The Last Days Of The Century . One of my favourite eighties albums. Best Al Stewart album imo. Quite a lot of people on that album including a young Tori Amos.
The Alan Parsons influence is not a biggie really. The introduction of Peter White to his band was the most important change. Great guitarist who also helped Al massively on the arrangement side of his music. After their partnership ( it was that) ended in the 90's it was a struggle for Al I believe to come up with anything interesting sadly.

Your reply drew my attention...

Yes, I'm not aware of AS' post-70's works, so I'm currently listening to that album on YT  >> not very impressed by the 80's sonics, but there's been much worse done: Tull, Yes and Genesis... It rates as his worst album on RYM , BTW


However, the Parsons-era in AS' career I'm thinking of is from the Year of The Catt and Time Passages (those were his Hypgnosis days as well)  and that mens his commercial heydays (often on the FM radio airwaves)


==============


BTW, for years, I searched for that delightful Eagles tracks called On The Border, and finding that the band's version was a piece of crap... Until about 10 years ago, I finally understod it wax Al Stewart's song I loved Silly me EmbarrassedLOL



=============

I also agree that qualifying AS as pop singer is lack of respect... He's much worthier than that.Thumbs Up
And I agree with Ken: in some ways, Chris DeBurgh took much inspiration fom AS, especially in his "proggier" (lack of better word as I write) moments
 

This album has nothing in common with eighties Genesis and Tull. Sonically yes probably could be better although it actually sounds good to me. 

The very later Al Stewart albums are a bit pointless and empty so god knows who posts ratings on that site, although does mean I can safely ignore it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grantman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2018 at 05:58
Thanks did not know that about the drumming, maybe i just didnt look into ,i only have jethro tulls crest of a knave to compare, cdS i have do not contain liner notes in fact none of my collection ,especially in canada do not have liner notes ,i can look stuff up on computer, but most of time i rather not is ,at times becomes deflating ,i tend to trust my instincts ,which at times can be very wrong it,s all subjective, big fan of the masterwork year of the cat best song FOR MYSELF is Broadway hotel, i just need to do more research, before posting happy new year

Edited by grantman - December 28 2018 at 05:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grantman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2018 at 07:00
i also believe there was some controversy ,concerning YEAR OF THE CAT about album sales ,i can remember in Canada a,when i went into a department store there was a display with year of the cat ,posters,flyers and such when it was released, the controversy had to do album sales or promotions

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nateliv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2018 at 13:14
I'm hoping that a Modern Times reissue is coming soon.






Edited by nateliv - April 05 2022 at 08:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Man With Hat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2018 at 13:36
lol...no. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2018 at 14:09
Not sure about 'prog' but all of his early albums are interesting...I like them all from Love Chronicles up to
Modern Times...I think at year of the Cat he went more 'poppy'.
Wakeman plays on Orange and Past....and Page and Jones play on Love Chronicles....there are some interesting musicians on all the early LP's.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2018 at 17:38
I think he applied a pop sensibility for his biggest selling albums combined with Parsons' brilliant production.  But I think, all in all, that his best albums are indeed Year of the Cat and Time Passages, popularity notwithstanding.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote grantman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2018 at 18:50
year of the cat and time passages bookends ,two of the very best al albums
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Braka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2018 at 09:31
Love Al Stewart; l won't bother mounting arguments about whether he's ever prog or not, but for anyone who stopped listening forty years ago, this is from what I think is still his most recent (studio) album


(hope that works)

Seriously, though, if there is one song of his that I reckon would appeal to prog fans it might 'News From Spain' from 1972.


In many ways he's written far more complicated songs, but this one just sounds HUGE, especially at the end.

Al Stewart has a penchant for turning in at least one 8-12 minute epic per album (these days anyway) with enough chord and key changes to possibly satisfy an undemanding proghead, but even if you don't consider his music proggish, I';d argue his approach to songwriting is progressive.

As I said, I'm not trying to mount any sort of argument for his inclusion in the database; I just thought this might be interesting to people.

Nicked this from Wikipedia:

In a 23 June 2012 telephone interview with Bob Reid and Blair Packham on NewsTalk 1010 AM in Toronto, Ontario (partially transcribed below), Al Stewart provided these insights into his songwriting "process":

"if I have two little rules and guiding principles, they would be:

(a) Don't use words that other people use. Very few people would put the word, oh, I don't know, "pterodactyl" into a song. So that's fine. No "Oh"'s. No "Baby"'s. No "I miss you so"'s. And no "you done me wrong". No "bad"'s or "sad"'s.

(b) And the other thing is, write about subjects that no one else writes about. Basically 90% of all songs seem to be either "Baby, I love you so", or "Baby, you've done me wrong". Now, when people look at songs, when I play anybody on the planet this song, and I say "What is this?", they will say, "Oh, that's Reggae", or "Oh, that's Heavy Metal", or "That's Country & Western", or "Oh, that's Opera", you know what I mean? But that's not what I asked. They're answering a question I didn't ask. What they're saying is "That's the music". What I'm saying is "What is the song?" And the song is either "I've done you wrong", or, "Baby, I love you so", no matter what style it's played in. In other words, there's a huge difference between content and style, and, if you work more towards content, why not make it content that is original.

One of the ways I get inspired to write a song – and this will always produce a song that sounds like nothing else (I can't recommend this highly enough) – I just open a world atlas, just at random, and whatever page I'm looking at, at least six songs immediately occur to me."



Edited by Braka - December 31 2018 at 10:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pietro Otello Romano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2025 at 10:07
Without a shadow of a doubt he is more prog than Lucio Battisti, who is unfortunately here and is not only not prog but he is also a awful musician.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2025 at 11:09
Hi,

To me, this is the hard part for PA and its choices. 

Quite a few other folks and bands have been added that were borderline, and I'm not sure that we are exactly following our own definitions to ensure that the work itself is right, but this is a very shady slope ... too many folks get close to it and do something else.

I'm not sure I would vote for him as "progressive", though I have to say that I love at least the first 3 or 4 albums and can STILL play them in their entirety and enjoy it ... which, for me, is a compliment to the artistry involved. 

Tough choice, but maybe we need a location for many of these things that are not exactly progressive, but they have some really great moments in the music ... and another example of this is The Grateful Dead, that has been spat on too many times ... but at the very least, they will be appreciated and remembered far longer than PA and the folks that make its choices. 

I would rather have these bands inside our ideas, than outside. Sometimes, the no choices are scary ... but I will accept them, though on occasion it is really touch to make a call.

But it is sad to see really good artists left behind ... when they deserve quite a bit more than they are getting!


Edited by moshkito - March 25 2025 at 19:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve Wyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2025 at 13:17
If Al Stewart is prog, then so is Paul Simon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2025 at 19:17
Prog pop. Much like Supertramp...although Supertramp is a bit proggier. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Floydoid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2025 at 23:19
Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

If Al Stewart is prog, then so is Paul Simon.


And I'd suggest Bob Dylan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2025 at 08:01
Originally posted by Floydoid Floydoid wrote:

Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

If Al Stewart is prog, then so is Paul Simon.


And I'd suggest Bob Dylan.

Hi,

The scary part is that the bad boy that told folk music to shut up, and played an electric guitar, has had a lot of talent in the area of putting together some really different and interesting work ... the main issue is, that we will not allow Bob a pat in the back for having turned on the electricity at a place, and time, where it was considered not folks music if it was electric.

But Bob, at least, didn't care what you and I thought and he went ahead and continued writing whatever he felt he needed to, and that was a sign of a strong internal side that knew what he wanted to do, and putting you with your, or mine, comments, was not going to bother him ... he still did what he wanted to do.

It's hard to say something bad about him, it's just like Willie Nelson ... very simple and not into the amount of silliness defined as "progressive", which takes away from the actual musician ... which has to have these specified things to make it "prog" ... that thought and idea is a measure of a commercial world that is trying hard to kill it, so their own artists have a better chance, instead of allowing an independent to run amuck!

Bot Bob, and Paul, and Al probably should not be on the PA lists, but they should be added to a special area of folks that really did well in the history of the music, and were not exactly sitting on their laurels and tush in between the girls, or wives!

I'm one of those folks that does not like to see artists discarded like baseball cards, even if it has enough records on it. It doesn't help anything!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2025 at 10:28
I think something like Nostradaus would not be out of place on a site like PA.



By the way, Al Stewart was not accepted into Prog Related when he was proposed to that category in 2019 (will say that it was not presented with a strong case).

I don;t think AL Stewart is Prog, but as with many artists not in PA, I would say that there are relations (prog folk relations particularly).

Since other names have come up as comparison, this off 1972's Dreaming With Alice is Prog Folk to me but one does not find Mark Fry in PA:



Originally posted by Floydoid Floydoid wrote:

Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

If Al Stewart is prog, then so is Paul Simon.


And I'd suggest Bob Dylan.


And if Paul Simon is Prog, then Art Garfunklel is at least Prog Related. :) ;)

And for another big name, I've rather fancied having Donovan in PA before. To me it's the folkies who delved into psych considerably that tend to strike me as PA worthy. But then Acid Folk is a particular interest of mine.

Edited by Logan - March 26 2025 at 10:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve Wyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2025 at 10:45
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

And for another big name, I've rather fancied having Donovan in PA before. To me it's the folkies who delved into psych considerably that tend to strike me as PA worthy. But then Acid Folk is a particular interest of mine.

And don't forget, Donovan opened for Yes on the Going for the One tour!:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2025 at 11:09
Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

And for another big name, I've rather fancied having Donovan in PA before. To me it's the folkies who delved into psych considerably that tend to strike me as PA worthy. But then Acid Folk is a particular interest of mine.


And don't forget, Donovan opened for Yes on the Going for the One tour!:)


Thanks, I did not not know that. Or maybe I did and I have forgotten. :)

The could have done a concert together called Going for the Little Ones (For Little Ones is a 1967 Donovan album), although that name sounds creepy.

It does not surprise me. Yes was fairly psychedelic in the early days and Donovan was more rock (albeit soft rock) into the 70s. I could easily have imagined a young Yes opening for Donovan in 1969-1970.

Here is Rick Wakeman and his band supporting Donovan on "Mellow Yellow" in 1983 for Gas Tank.



Not much of an anecdote, but I was good friends with a girl who did a butter commercial featuring the song "Mellow Yellow" (think mellow yellow butter).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2025 at 00:49
A lot of posts on this thread date back to 2018 and I note that he was put forward for 'prog related' after that but rejected. I still enjoy his best albums and although I know I'm repeating myself but would reiterate he did make good albums in the eighties. For an artist that started out back in the sixties (and roomed with Paul Simon) this is a big thing in his favour. In fact his run of albums from Past, Present and Future (1975) to The Last Days Of The Century (1988) are all consistently good. The last of those proved a critical if not not commercial success and has some of his 'proggiest' material with the title track, Ghostly Horses Of The Plain, Helen and Cassandra especially are delightful. For those not that offay with him I highly recommend the live album 'Indian Summer' which includes all his classic songs from the period 1975 to 1980 which many argue is his best. Features his backing band 'Shot In The Dark' and the excellent guitarist and multi instrumentalist Peter White. Nowadays he spends most of his time in America and performs occassionally with another band called 'The Empty Pockets' . They even released a live album last year of his greatest hits and featured a guest appearance from Peter White. Nice guy and also a great wine connoiseur!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pietro Otello Romano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2025 at 09:11

The location is there: ‘Prog Related’. The problem is that especially between the end of the 60s and the beginning of the 70s, progressive music was a wave that swept the world, influencing more or less all the artists on the market. Italy in particular (I was there) was very affected by the phenomenon and even artists, that I would struggle to consider rock like Riccardo Cocciante or Opera, had vague Prog influences.

Do we want to create the category Pop Prog and then Battisti would perhaps make some sense?

But going back to he topic: Al Stewart, the prog influences are not only present in the two best known albums: ‘Past, Present and Future’ & ‘Year of the Cat’, but already from the first work ‘Bedsitter Images’, which is dated 1967, in some tracks we can find traces of Prog if not in the construction of the songs in the arrangement and in the use of instruments.


I quote a few tracks from memory: ‘A Long Way Down From Stephanie’, ‘Beleeka Doodle Day’, ‘Cleave To Me’.


Let us remember that at that time Prog was not yet known as such, there were the Moody Blues and Procol Harum, and the masterpieces that would pave the way for the Golden Age were still to come: 1969 In the Court... 1969 Tommy etc... The albeit vague prog influences in the aforementioned tracks therefore acquire a wider dimension when compared to the period, as an autonomous choice of the author to make a certain type of music rather than follow the wave a few years later when prog was also consolidated as a business.

However, it is certainly not only for "Bedsitter Images" that I think Al Stewart could be here. For example "Love Chronicles" (1969) outside the 18-minute title track, which I consider more of an elongated song than a suite, there is "Ballad Of Mary Foster" which despite a somewhat sparse arrangement has a vaguely Prog construction. Also worthy of note is "Life & Life Only" with an interesting, somewhat psi-esque ending.

From the following album "Zero She Flies" I point out the beautiful "Manuscript" which reminded me of the best Procol Harum, especially in the use of keyboards.


The following album "Orange" (1972) definitely has a more marked prog imprint. The album highlight "The news from Spain" would not look out of place on an album by Procol Harum or Barclay James Harvest. Also worthy of note is the instrumental track "Once an orage, always an orange" with its slightly baroque tones and a guitar sound that recalls, even in the composition, Steve Howe and "Night of the 4th of may" for the slightly psychedelic crescendo, especially in the use of keyboards like Vanilla Fudge or Deep Purple. Interesting even if less classifiable in the Prog field is also "Songs out of clay".


The influences from Steve Howe and, less marked, from Yes in general become more evident in the following album "Past, Present And Future" (1972). I think that the majority of those present on this forum know "Nostradamus" the main reason why this thread is most likely open. But I would like to point out the magnificent "Road to Moscow". Here too the sounds of the more acoustic Steve Howe are very evident as in the composition embellished by the strings in crescendo.

Sorry but I know Battisti quite well, my sister was a fan, and from memory I can't think of anything even comparable to these two songs.
In addition, from the same album there are also "Old Admirals" and "Last Day Of June 1934" which have, especially the first, vague Prog sounds.


I don't want to go on with the whole discography and I leave out the most famous work "the Year of the Cat", which perhaps has only the sound of Prog, but in my opinion the excursions into the field of Prog by the artist have been if not frequent at least periodic throughout his career. I quote from memory "Life in dark water" and "Palace of Versailles" from Time Passeges (1978), "Rocks in the Ocean" from 24 Carrots (1980) and "Helen and Cassandra" from Last Days of the Century (1988).

In conclusion, in my very personal opinion, if you ask me if Al Stewart is proper Prog, I too have my doubts, but then probably 50% of the artists on progarchives shouldn't be there. According to this (strict) principle, not even Pink Floyd, by their own declaration, should be here!
But if you ask me if Al Stewart should or shouldn't be here, the matter is completely different.
I'll start by saying that I've been a member and a regular visitor to the site for many years precisely because of the courage to break with certain patterns. Courageous inclusions like Legendary Pink Dots, David Sylvian and in the years to follow Kauan, EF, Black Country New Road etc... are more than welcome because they contribute to keeping Prog alive and not a dead language spoken only in the narrow circles of NeoProg.

So under this beautiful extended umbrella of Prog, why a sensitive and innovative artist like Al Stewart doesn't find space for me is just as inexplicable as the fact that Battisti is there instead.


Greetings and happy Prog to all

Ps: sorry if I didn't link all the songs mentioned. They are all available on YouTube and anyone who wants to learn more just copy and paste the title :)

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful

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