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Dick Heath View Drop Down
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Joined: April 19 2004
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Points: 12818 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2006 at 18:51
It's only a start. Glaring errors and omissions need to be fixed. Wik is an increasingly unreliable, unreferenced, unrefereed source of info. Trust some of its details, be sceptical about others, and where you see nonsense, correct it - do not treat Wik as your main source of reference. BTW the two reference books listed at best are reasonable, and both by authors are second generation prog fans.

And where is the jazz rock ?
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Sean Trane View Drop Down
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Points: 20654 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2006 at 04:57
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

It's only a start. Glaring errors and omissions need to be fixed. Wik is an increasingly unreliable, unreferenced, unrefereed source of info. Trust some of its details, be sceptical about others, and where you see nonsense, correct it - do not treat Wik as your main source of reference. BTW the two reference books listed at best are reasonable, and both by authors are second generation prog fans.

And where is the jazz rock ?
 
this is of course the danger of such open sites.
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Dick Heath View Drop Down
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Points: 12818 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2006 at 06:50
Sean
 
Away from the arts side of Wik, I now have PhD students quoting the scientific entries - one of the interpretation of contact angles wrt surface science was nonsense, and that (I have to presume) from a scientist who should know these things. Something more popular such a prog rock, is even more open to fans with faulty memories (but aren't we all), and fans who are prepared to change the truthful detail of history. You'll note some changes made by me:
 
1. Soft machine didn't release Jet Propelled Photograph (singular ?) in 1967 - rather recorded it as a demo under recording producer G Gomelsky, who eventually licensed the recordings to BYG Records of France for a 1971 release as Record Generation Vol 8 and Volume?(I have not got this album), i.e. originally the recordings were on two side of two separate albums!!!!. In the late 70's  Charly Records had the license to the release the demo on a single LP, this time called it Soft Machine At The Beginning. It was sometime in the 80's that it reissued on vinyl yet again gaining the title Jet Propelled Photograph.
 
2. How can the first Renaissance album be forgotten from the list for 1969? Easy, because the likes of author Jerry Lucky as a second generation fan based in the US was not aware (as we first generation fans in the UK), of what originally happened, so doesn't write it up in his Progressive Rock Files. A reminder (it is in my review for the first Renaissance album): the BBC took up Renaissance as the first of the new intelligent rock bands, and so they got a whole art programme to themselves (unheard of before then). It may be argued that the public in the UK were more aware of Renaissance than King Crimson initially.
 
3. I for one, loath omission of Touch, a genuine pioneering US prog rock band, acknowledged by Yes and Kansas as an influence, whilst the avant rock of Zappa, very belated gets called prog rock and is included (and thereby don't forget United States Of America........).
 
4. And if Soft Machine's Third gets listed you can't escape jazz rock fusion.
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toolis View Drop Down
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Points: 1678 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2006 at 07:19
naah.. PA's far better...
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Sean Trane View Drop Down
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Points: 20654 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2006 at 08:03
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

Sean
 
Away from the arts side of Wik, I now have PhD students quoting the scientific entries - one of the interpretation of contact angles wrt surface science was nonsense, and that (I have to presume) from a scientist who should know these things. Something more popular such a prog rock, is even more open to fans with faulty memories (but aren't we all), and fans who are prepared to change the truthful detail of history.
 
You'll note some changes made by me:
 
1. Soft machine didn't release Jet Propelled Photograph (singular ?) in 1967 - rather recorded it as a demo under recording producer G Gomelsky, who eventually licensed the recordings to BYG Records of France for a 1971 release as Record Generation Vol 8 and Volume?(I have not got this album), i.e. originally the recordings were on two side of two separate albums!!!!. In the late 70's  Charly Records had the license to the release the demo on a single LP, this time called it Soft Machine At The Beginning. It was sometime in the 80's that it reissued on vinyl yet again gaining the title Jet Propelled Photograph.
 
2. How can the first Renaissance album be forgotten from the list for 1969? Easy, because the likes of author Jerry Lucky as a second generation fan based in the US was not aware (as we first generation fans in the UK), of what originally happened, so doesn't write it up in his Progressive Rock Files. A reminder (it is in my review for the first Renaissance album): the BBC took up Renaissance as the first of the new intelligent rock bands, and so they got a whole art programme to themselves (unheard of before then). It may be argued that the public in the UK were more aware of Renaissance than King Crimson initially.
 
3. I for one, loath omission of Touch, a genuine pioneering US prog rock band, acknowledged by Yes and Kansas as an influence, whilst the avant rock of Zappa, very belated gets called prog rock and is included (and thereby don't forget United States Of America........).
 
4. And if Soft Machine's Third gets listed you can't escape jazz rock fusion.
 
You can do all the changes you want, I just gave the link, I did not do the workBig smile. I chanced upon it, found major discrepancies and gave it to the members, because obviously a lot of them a bored out of their skulls, so theu could coorect and supplement it.
 
Wiki is hardly a source of references for me!! Too many people use it for their own purposes. I even find the site dangerous for the very reason that some might want to bend the facts historically
 
As we discussed Wiki's article on AOR, Ivān is now unable to make a distinction between AORadios and AORock and now calls CTTE, TAAB or Zeppelin AORCry. >> take a look at the artistes that are included in Wiki's list of AOR groups >> simply disgracefulAngryDead
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Sean Trane - September 01 2006 at 08:03
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
Back to Top
Dick Heath View Drop Down
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Jazz-Rock Specialist

Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
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Points: 12818 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2006 at 12:14
Suddenly struck me: why the hell is Syn listed? Sets the precedent for all the rest of those pre-prog bands (without pulling the psychedelic bands), for instance  (and starting with Yes's other roots) Mabel Greer's Toyshop, Tomorrow, and then Vanilla Fudge etc. 
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