Credibility

Well, I suppose that it is (or should be) a matter of reality checks rather than aural sympathies. Too often I think that people reject some things because they don't "sound" prog...

P.H.P. wrote: I can almost smell the teen and metal spirit here with bands like Blind Guardian, Radiohead, Tool included as prog, among many others, this site is supposed to be a prog rock resource not an alternative, metal or anything resource

Smells like teen spirit? Haha now that's a fun way to put it. I've had similar issues with couple posters who are obviously Toolheads et cetera. It can be very limiting if one band blocks your view of entire genre called prog. But this site, as a whole, has 99.99% valid information and majority of regular writers are very aware of the big picture. Don't let the 0.01% fool you into believing that true prog has left the building because that is not the case. Progarchives will be around for decades to come. And also best prog will be around no matter how many fake attempts come and go. Trust me on this one brother.

P.H.P. wrote: Hello, first post here in ProgArchives, or should I say AnythingArchives?, let me be honest this site was sort of good once for what I remember, kind of trusty, but the time (and some people) have done damage to this project, now I can tell you seriously you have lost credibility in matters of prog, I can almost smell the teen and metal spirit here with bands like Blind Guardian, Radiohead, Tool included as prog, among many others, this site is supposed to be a prog rock resource not an alternative, metal or anything resource, there are many metal sites and this one is for our beloved prog; and yes I've noticed changes in your genre sorting, I think it was fine with "art rock", but now, crossover prog?, heavy prog?, eclectic prog? what's that¿¿??... I really think definitions tend to be useless with prog, it's something you guys must experience, really, take this as a honest advice, and if you want to be reliable, let's do it, so let's get back to prog, guys!

Sorry that you feel this way, but judging from the things you said it appears like you "didn't do your homework" on the bands you mention. First of all: "teen and metal spirit"? Blind Guardian, Radiohead, Tool - they all started in the late 80s/early 90s and most of their members are in their 40s now, as are many of their fans and the collabs/admins who agreed to their inclusion.

And "crossover prog", "heavy prog", "eclectic prog" ... those are essentially sub divisions of art rock. No new bands were introduced with these new categories.

"I really think definitions tend to be useless with prog" ... so are you suggesting to remove all genres? Well, you can simply browse the artists A-Z if you want to. But if you don't like metal you'll probably be thankful for us guys in the prog metal team to identify these bands so you can avoid them easily.


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - September 01 2007 at 04:12

The Whistler wrote:   However, some musical "artforms" just cannot properly utilize progressive ideals. For examples, I somehow doubt that a prog-rap thing could ever happen, since rap is based on a very simple, streamlined beat and someone talking. Any attempts to "prog it up" would be silly at best, or ear destructive otherwise. Can you imagine a ten minute rap with a lush, baroque counter melody in the background?

Well, since Opeth managed to pull it with putting Death Metal and Melodic Prog together, why not? I could imagine a rap epic. Someone just has to do it.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Sorry that you feel this way, but judging from the things you said it appears like you "didn't do your homework" on the bands you mention. First of all: "teen and metal spirit"? Blind Guardian, Radiohead, Tool - they all started in the late 80s/early 90s and most of their members are in their 40s now, as are many of their fans and the collabs/admins who agreed to their inclusion.

I think original poster refers to the majority of fans who listen to those bands. But then again, young people also listen to all kinds of prog so no big deal. We all been young.




Edited by meinmatrix - September 01 2007 at 04:18

The Whistler wrote: For examples, I somehow doubt that a prog-rap thing could ever happen, since rap is based on a very simple, streamlined beat and someone talking. Any attempts to "prog it up" would be silly at best, or ear destructive otherwise. Can you imagine a ten minute rap with a lush, baroque counter melody in the background?

http://www.myspace.com/dalek

necessary evils aside, I think these three new sub-sub-categories of prog are going to have to prove themselves to all the new users before anyone takes them seriously. I'm sure they make sense, but their names are very artificial and I can see why it's easy for someone to roll their eyes at them right now, and worst of all, I think people are sick of King Crimson being moved all the time - It's not a vote of confidence for the site, considering that they're the exemplary prog band and no-one has any idea where to put them from year to year.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: The Whistler wrote: For examples, I somehow doubt that a prog-rap thing could ever happen, since rap is based on a very simple, streamlined beat and someone talking. Any attempts to "prog it up" would be silly at best, or ear destructive otherwise. Can you imagine a ten minute rap with a lush, baroque counter melody in the background? http://www.myspace.com/dalek

Prog rock music has no limits, it is totally experimental, imaginative, inventive, intelligent, it certainly has a meaning, but through decades it HAS BEEN sort of delimited, it's not about how many prog rock characteristics a band could fill (if we let that be the guide of this site, tons of bands would be included day after day, don't you think?), it's something you just know when you got the necessary experience in prog rock, it's out of definitions of this kind or novelty tags, when it's prog it's certainly prog! end of the history, and about "progressive metal" area, I'm myself open-minded as we all should be, but the difference is to be effective and careful with prog, I'm no musical hater (as I feel some of you may be), I'm a music lover, I can appreciatte good efforts of music in almost every style, even the heaviers.

But as the name of the site is "ProgArchives", let's focus in new or old prog rock acts to include here, forget how related a band is to prog, when it's simply not prog, it doesn't deserves to be here, there are probably tons of site covering that kind of bands out there, I would like this site could count with more mature rewievers, so it can be more objective and of course only focused on prog.

Peace, and many thanks you all you who positively answered my post.

P.H.P. wrote: Prog rock music has no limits, it is totally experimental, imaginative, inventive, intelligent, it certainly has a meaning, but through decades it HAS BEEN sort of delimited, it's not about how many prog rock characteristics a band could fill (if we let that be the guide of this site, tons of bands would be included day after day, don't you think?), it's something you just know when you got the necessary experience in prog rock, it's out of definitions of this kind or novelty tags, .

What you say is simply not true of Prog Rock. You are describing progressive music, which is palpably not the same. The experience that you allude to tells us that Prog Rock was a time and a place and not necessarily a movement. You stated that "Prog rock music has no limits, it is totally experimental, imaginative, inventive, intelligent" but that is just a fanciful generalisation and exaggeration. Genesis and Yes "totally experimental"? I think not. Indeed they were, to devotees at least, "imaginative and inventive" and "intelligent" but these are ultimately not very useful terms for the basis of your argument. Radiohead and Tool are far more experimental and delimited than many of the so-called "Classic Prog Rock Bands". I have no love for either band but your argument is nonsensical and ill-informed, borne of petty snobbery rather than any real feel or "experience" of the genre.
This site intends to be as inclusive as possible and we turn down many bands, to the fury and despair of their promoters. As my colleague "Easy Livin'" so eloquently stated in a previous post, if you want to use other sites that have a far narrower, and some might say "blinkered" view of the Prog Rock spectrum, then be our guest.

chamberry wrote: I don't know about Dälek having Baroque qualities, but he's music is certainly lush specially on his two latest albums. He has a song on his "From Filthy Tongue Of God and Griots" that's 12 minutes long. It's one of the weirdest "hip-hop" songs I've heard.

I don't think that there are any Baroque qualities in Dälek's music, but it's Rap/Hip-Hop which is really unusual and not what you would normally expect if you only know Rap/Hip-Hop from the charts. But the connection to prog is certainly not made by symphonic/classical elements, it's more in the Post Rock/Experimental corner.