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TGM: Orb 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
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 Posted: January 09 2009 at 19:41 |
 Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
TGM: Orb wrote:
Also, I really do think it's bad form to want to stream anything against the express wishes of the artist involved. First and foremost, this is a fan site. I'm not sure whether the legal argument would stand up (but I guess you've done your homework), but really, do we want to be a site that makes demands of the artists and goes in for petty squabbling?
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This is not a fan site, a fan site is a place devoted to an artist. This a REVIEW AND INFORMATION site, the forum is only a complement the main page we inform about bands that we love and also about the ones we dislike. It's a fan site of progressive rock in general, not one devoted to a particular artist. It is also a review and information site. The overwhelming majority of members would probably describe themselves as fans of prog rock in general. I would suggest that the site wants to come across as enthusiastic about progressive rock music and as respectful of the artists.
And it's not that i done my homework, I'm an attorney that has worked in copyright issues for almost two decades by now.
I know. That was what I was getting at.
TGM: Orb wrote:
Anyway, the important part is the ethos of it, not the law. If an artist doesn't want us to put up samples of their music, I think we should respect that. |
That's the difference from our perceptions........What if that same artist doesn't want newspapers to inform about a concert or a team doesn't want a TV station News program to show limited images of a game? There's a difference here. A newspaper informing about a concert isn't the same as a newspaper showing its readers footage of a concert (to which they were not entitled) to accompany that review. Equally, the news programs probably have some sort of deal which entitles them to show said images (alternatively, it's a case of Fair Use or simply a use that those who do have the rights to the images do not object to). Do we have to accept it?
Would you say "Do we want to be anewspaper who makes demands of the artiosts, politicians, sportsmen and inform about them when they don't want?
Hosting a sample is not the same as informing through original content (which is the newspaper example you've given). The reviews are informing, the bios are informing, giving a sample is making use of an artist's copyrighted material. I don't know if fair use laws cover it, but regardless, I wouldn't want the site to be hosting material against the express wishes of its creator/owner, even if it were legally in the right. It simply seems disrespectful.
I believe in the law, if an artist uses the law to protect their work (something to what they are entitled), then they should accept the consequences of the same law and respect the limitations decided by the legislator.
If you check, the artists use the Copyright act to protect their right, but exactly that same copyright Act grants a limit to their right named fair deal.
You can't decide I claim my right according to Part I, Copyright and Moral Rights But I don't want to accept the section referred to Exceptions Article 29.1 of the same Copyright Act, that's unmoral IMO, as a fact you don't decide to accept or not the laws, the laws are mandatory, but using a determined article of a determined law to protect your right and reject another article of the same law just because you don't like it, is going too far.
It seems like at least a grey or disputed area whether the samples here are something absolutely definitely covered by this Exceptions Article. I would suggest that the artist here simply doesn't believe that Exceptions Article 29.1 definitely applies to this case, rather than that Exceptions Article 29.1 is unacceptable.
I don't care about the samples, I believe they are unnecessary, I care about the legal principle, because if we start ignoring the Free Information right with the excuse of individual rights protection, we will reach a point in which the sport teams, leagues and artists will say "I want newspaper "A" to inform about my game or show, but not Newspaper "B". The next day you have a subpoena for attempting against the freedom of information.
My point is the respect of Constitutional and moral rights, that's all.
Iván |
I still feel it's a bit silly to compromise PA because of an artist's decision over a legally grey area (if you have to establish whether the album rather than the song is the complete product, I don't think it's absolutely watertight). Your slippery slope argument is, in my opinion, inaccurate (one concession does not necessarily lead to ten concessions in largely different circumstances).
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Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
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Posted: January 09 2009 at 18:51 |
Ivan with that is perfectly clear tha PA respect the law
And Fripp is and very Wh**m guy.
That attitude from him is disapointing.
Fortunately i only admire and like his music.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: January 09 2009 at 18:48 |
Alberto Muñoz wrote:
Maybe Ivan they find difficult to understand the point because as you know, our body of Latin law is different of the anglo law.
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Thanks Alberto, but in this case I searched the canadian Law, being prog Archives a site registered in Canada and it says:
____________________
Research or private study
29. Fair dealing for the purpose of research or private study does not infringe copyright.
R.S., 1985, c. C-42, s. 29; R.S., 1985, c. 10 (4th Supp.), s. 7; 1994, c. 47, s. 61; 1997, c. 24, s. 18.
Criticism or review
29.1 Fair dealing for the purpose of criticism or review does not infringe copyright if the following are mentioned:
(b) if given in the source, the name of the
(i) author, in the case of a work,
(ii) performer, in the case of a performer’s performance,
(iii) maker, in the case of a sound recording, or
(iv) broadcaster, in the case of a communication signal.
1997, c. 24, s. 18.
News reporting
29.2 Fair dealing for the purpose of news reporting does not infringe copyright if the following are mentioned:
(b) if given in the source, the name of the
(i) author, in the case of a work,
(ii) performer, in the case of a performer’s performance,
(iii) maker, in the case of a sound recording, or
(iv) broadcaster, in the case of a communication signal.
1997, c. 24, s. 18.
______________________
It's the law that Prog Archives has to respect.
Iván
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Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
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Posted: January 09 2009 at 18:41 |
That's Right what Ivan says about the Law is Mandatory and coercitive but in a State of Right, the artist goes to the Law to protect thier work and that's fair, but at the same time that right have a limitation marked by the same Law.
For example here in México, we have a federal law of intellectual property and in various articles but in the 251 says more or less that a person can do a copy of the protected work for private using or studing using, but not for selling or create a profit of that work.
Maybe Ivan they find difficult to understand the point because as you know, our body of Latin law is different of the anglo law.
And to TGM:Orb : If and artist do not want to put samples or that do not want that PA put up samples of their music, if PA were in México, for example there are some articles in the Federal Law of Intellectual property that most of the people can use the artistic creation for public dominium, some creation, specially 30+ old can be use like public dominion.
Obiously respecting the creator of the artisitc creation
Edited by Alberto Muñoz - January 09 2009 at 18:43
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mrcozdude
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 25 2007
Location: Devon,UK.
Status: Offline
Points: 2078
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Posted: January 09 2009 at 18:31 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
Angelo wrote:
mrcozdude wrote:
Fripp what are you doing!?
Im going to hide my kc albums in the attic before my house gets raided by his goons. |
Fripp's not doing very much these days - you revived a 9 month old thread 
(and after a quick scan of the responses - you were quite succesful at it as well....)
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Internet rage is never finished, only deferred. ;-) |
No rage or anger,im just a little disapointed.You know the type which sounds worse from your parents.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: January 09 2009 at 18:29 |
TGM: Orb wrote:
Also, I really do think it's bad form to want to stream anything against the express wishes of the artist involved. First and foremost, this is a fan site. I'm not sure whether the legal argument would stand up (but I guess you've done your homework), but really, do we want to be a site that makes demands of the artists and goes in for petty squabbling?
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This is not a fan site, a fan site is a place devoted to an artist. This a REVIEW AND INFORMATION site, the forum is only a complement the main page we inform about bands that we love and also about the ones we dislike.
And it's not that i done my homework, I'm an attorney that has worked in copyright issues for almost two decades by now.
TGM: Orb wrote:
Anyway, the important part is the ethos of it, not the law. If an artist doesn't want us to put up samples of their music, I think we should respect that. |
That's the difference from our perceptions........What if that same artist doesn't want newspapers to inform about a concert or a team doesn't want a TV station News program to show limited images of a game?
Do we have to accept it?
Would you say "Do we want to be anewspaper who makes demands of the artiosts, politicians, sportsmen and inform about them when they don't want?
I believe in the law, if an artist uses the law to protect their work (something to what they are entitled), then they should accept the consequences of the same law and respect the limitations decided by the legislator.
If you check, the artists use the Copyright act to protect their right, but exactly that same copyright Act grants a limit to their right named fair deal.
You can't decide I claim my right according to Part I, Copyright and Moral Rights But I don't want to accept the section referred to Exceptions Article 29.1 of the same Copyright Act, that's unmoral IMO, as a fact you don't decide to accept or not the laws, the laws are mandatory, but using a determined article of a determined law to protect your right and reject another article of the same law just because you don't like it, is going too far.
I don't care about the samples, I believe they are unnecessary, I care about the legal principle, because if we start ignoring the Free Information right with the excuse of individual rights protection, we will reach a point in which the sport teams, leagues and artists will say "I want newspaper "A" to inform about my game or show, but not Newspaper "B". The next day you have a subpoena for attempting against the freedom of information.
My point is the respect of Constitutional and moral rights, that's all.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 09 2009 at 18:44
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TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
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Posted: January 09 2009 at 18:12 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
TGM: Orb wrote:
Frankly, Fripp has no obligation to simply allow what is essentially unauthorised broadcasting. That the other bands you mentioned choose to, great!, but that doesn't change the fact that the artists/record labels have their work, and can choose not to let people broadcast it freely. To be honest, this move comes across as perfectly reasonable to me.
This is not a p2p site, this is a CRITICISM and REVIEW site protected under the canadiian laws and authorized to have samoples as Magazines, Newspapers and News Broadcastig stations.
The law works 2 ways, if an artist wants his copyrights to be protected, he will also respect the FREE INFORMATION rights.
If everybody acted like this, a TV News station couldn't inform partial images of a ball game, even if they don't adffect the integrity of the game, but they are allowed, as PA is allowed to give a complete information if we don't attempt against the integrity of the album.
I don't like piracy, i'm agaionst it completely, but this is information, a complete different issue.
In this particular case, the artist involved simply does not want any free samples to be up. This is streaming complete songs. I am aware that PA is different to p2p or piracy. Nonetheless, as far as I can see, Fripp + co. are simply being consistent with their requests/demands to other sites.
Also, I really do think it's bad form to want to stream anything against the express wishes of the artist involved. First and foremost, this is a fan site. I'm not sure whether the legal argument would stand up (but I guess you've done your homework), but really, do we want to be a site that makes demands of the artists and goes in for petty squabbling?
(on the 'if everybody' paragraph... Not everyone does act like this, but I'm fairly sure that more people will if we send out the message that we won't respect an artist as much if they aren't comfortable with having their samples up here.)
Your suggested response is simply berkishness in reply to some perceived insult (which was, in my opinion, 100% reasonable anyway). And, coincidentally, it'd be crippling PA's reliability and value for no reason. Do the fans really have any reasonable grounds to expect to be allowed to keep up a few tracks? Personally, I don't think so.
It's not berkishness, it's simply being reasonable, if an artist enjoys the links provided by PA to sell their music, should also respect the rights to a fair deal according the laws (Read the Canadian Copyright Act that I quoted with a Supreme Court Resolution).
Nobody will keep a song, FREE STREAM doesn't work in that way, you can listen a track but not keep it, so this parragraph only reflects lack of knowledge of the law and the system.
Just to finish, use yopyur logic, we are not talking about a POP hit single that has striong economic value by itself, we are talking about Progressive Rock, a genre based in ALBUMS and a song (not remotely a hit on it's day, much less 30 or 40 years after) doesn't has any value for a Prog listener.
It seems to me like berkishness to take particular measures to make an artist more difficult to investigate just because we feel snubbed by a lack of samples. As I said, this would be compromising PA considerably for the sake of petty feud about... that artist compromising PA (but only a tiny bit). I know that nobody will keep a song. Hence the up part of 'keep up' (and please, that jibe there, I do, at least, know what I'm saying). As in keeping up on the internet.
As for the prog-only-really-counts-when-in-an-album argument, it
A) varies for every listener (songs matter to me. I listen to individual songs every now and then)
B) varies according to the artists
and C) the artists have chosen to divide an album into smaller units, or produced smaller units which together constitute an album. Finally, lots of prog songs are really rather long, and consequently can end up being the most important or, at least, a very important part of an album.
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Anyway, the important part is the ethos of it, not the law. If an artist doesn't want us to put up samples of their music, I think we should respect that. I don't think PA should make demands of the artists on the site. We shouldn't compromise PA's integrity just to get back at an artist for something that doesn't really matter.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: January 09 2009 at 17:03 |
TGM: Orb wrote:
Frankly, Fripp has no obligation to simply allow what is essentially unauthorised broadcasting. That the other bands you mentioned choose to, great!, but that doesn't change the fact that the artists/record labels have their work, and can choose not to let people broadcast it freely. To be honest, this move comes across as perfectly reasonable to me.
This is not a p2p site, this is a CRITICISM and REVIEW site protected under the canadiian laws and authorized to have samoples as Magazines, Newspapers and News Broadcastig stations.
The law works 2 ways, if an artist wants his copyrights to be protected, he will also respect the FREE INFORMATION rights.
If everybody acted like this, a TV News station couldn't inform partial images of a ball game, even if they don't adffect the integrity of the game, but they are allowed, as PA is allowed to give a complete information if we don't attempt against the integrity of the album.
As a fact a TV stations goes against ther integrity of a game, because they show the key strikes, the home runs, the runs, the crucial outs, while PA only places a song from a long career, but nobody questions their right...Why do they question our's?
I don't like piracy, i'm against it completely, but this is information, a totally different issue protectrd by Law and Constitutions.
Your suggested response is simply berkishness in reply to some perceived insult (which was, in my opinion, 100% reasonable anyway). And, coincidentally, it'd be crippling PA's reliability and value for no reason. Do the fans really have any reasonable grounds to expect to be allowed to keep up a few tracks? Personally, I don't think so.
It's not berkishness, it's simply being reasonable, if an artist enjoys the links provided by PA to sell their music, should also respect the rights to a fair deal according the laws (Read the Canadian Copyright Act that I quoted with a Supreme Court Resolution).
Nobody will keep a song, FREE STREAM doesn't work in that way, you can listen a track but not keep it, so this parragraph only reflects lack of knowledge of the law and the system.
Just to finish, use your logic, we are not talking about a POP hit single that has striong economic value by itself, we are talking about Progressive Rock, a genre based in ALBUMS and a song (not remotely a hit on it's day, much less 30 or 40 years after) doesn't has any value for a Prog listener.
Nobody will stop buying In the Court of the Crimson King only because they heard I Talk to the Wind.
But I'm not the owner, I only give my personal opinion.
Iván
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Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 09 2009 at 17:53
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: January 09 2009 at 16:56 |
Angelo wrote:
mrcozdude wrote:
Fripp what are you doing!?
Im going to hide my kc albums in the attic before my house gets raided by his goons. |
Fripp's not doing very much these days - you revived a 9 month old thread
(and after a quick scan of the responses - you were quite succesful at it as well....)
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Internet rage is never finished, only deferred. ;-)
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Angelo
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: May 07 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 13240
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Posted: January 09 2009 at 16:48 |
mrcozdude wrote:
Fripp what are you doing!?
Im going to hide my kc albums in the attic before my house gets raided by his goons. |
Fripp's not doing very much these days - you revived a 9 month old thread (and after a quick scan of the responses - you were quite succesful at it as well....)
Edited by Angelo - January 09 2009 at 16:51
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: January 09 2009 at 16:40 |
TGM: Orb wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
What pisses me is that there are
1.-- New bands asking for space to heard
2.- Old bands like Marillion giving their music for free because probably they believe this will help them in their tour.
3.- Good solid and famous bands who not only authorize the use of stream but ask us to do so and even send us material. IMO this is a healthy position, they don't admit peer 2 peer or piracy but know the difference with a site like our's that adds a song or two as information.
4.- One band in which the head is a jerk that because he knows his band is important, doesn't admit a single stream track.....and we the poor fans have to accept him as he is because he's famous and a self proclaimed genius..
We must promote Nª 1 and Nª 2 bands, support Nª 3 bands and reject the fourth group (If there is another jerk as stone face).
Honestly, important or not, I would leave only the bio without Photo, eliminate the link to his site as cover albums, of course delete the links that send to places where his albums are sold and just leave a place for reviews without any form of advertising, not even the photos of the albums.
Iván. |
Frankly, Fripp has no obligation to simply allow what is essentially unauthorised broadcasting. That the other bands you mentioned choose to, great!, but that doesn't change the fact that the artists/record labels have their work, and can choose not to let people broadcast it freely. To be honest, this move comes across as perfectly reasonable to me. And, coincidentally, it'd be crippling PA's reliability and value for no reason. Do the fans really have any reasonable grounds to expect to be allowed to keep up a few tracks? Personally, I don't think so.
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I basically agree with the above text. Note I have removed the name-calling bit....
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TGM: Orb
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 21 2007
Location: n/a
Status: Offline
Points: 8052
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Posted: January 09 2009 at 16:39 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
What pisses me is that there are
1.-- New bands asking for space to heard
2.- Old bands like Marillion giving their music for free because probably they believe this will help them in their tour.
3.- Good solid and famous bands who not only authorize the use of stream but ask us to do so and even send us material. IMO this is a healthy position, they don't admit peer 2 peer or piracy but know the difference with a site like our's that adds a song or two as information.
4.- One band in which the head is a jerk that because he knows his band is important, doesn't admit a single stream track.....and we the poor fans have to accept him as he is because he's famous and a self proclaimed genius..
We must promote Nª 1 and Nª 2 bands, support Nª 3 bands and reject the fourth group (If there is another jerk as stone face).
Honestly, important or not, I would leave only the bio without Photo, eliminate the link to his site as cover albums, of course delete the links that send to places where his albums are sold and just leave a place for reviews without any form of advertising, not even the photos of the albums.
Iván. |
Frankly, Fripp has no obligation to simply allow what is essentially unauthorised broadcasting. That the other bands you mentioned choose to, great!, but that doesn't change the fact that the artists/record labels have their work, and can choose not to let people broadcast it freely. To be honest, this move comes across as perfectly reasonable to me. Your suggested response is simply berkishness in reply to some perceived insult (which was, in my opinion, 100% reasonable anyway). And, coincidentally, it'd be crippling PA's reliability and value for no reason. Do the fans really have any reasonable grounds to expect to be allowed to keep up a few tracks? Personally, I don't think so.
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Tony R
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 11979
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Posted: January 09 2009 at 16:38 |
Vibrationbaby wrote:
Ivan. Ivan my son. Count from 100 backwards slowly. Imagine pastoral scenes of the English countryside. I understand how you feel. As I mentioned I`m just as riled as the next guy about this.
Fripp is indeed an unusual creature but I don`t think he acts this way in order to be treated like you say, a " Prima Donna". It`s part of his nature and , as I said he can change his mind like the wind and has the tendancy to contradict himself. We don`t even know for sure why or how this decision was made. It certainly wasn`t Progarchives alone which perpetuated this action by King Crimson`s legal representatives. As Tony R mentioned earlier anything King Crimson has also even been wiped from the last FM. I have a sneaking suspicion that it was something somebody within the KC organisation saw which broke the proverbial camel`s back. I`m also suprised that Syd Smith hasn`t come forth with anything on this.
I still propose a formal letter endorsed by as many collabs as possible to be sent to the appropriate representatives of KC explaining our position. At least I believe we here at PA are entitled to an explanation even if such a letter is to no avail.
I volounteer my time to sit down and compose such a letter and post it for all to see and approve prior to sending it off to Mr. Fripp`s people. I`ll also make sur that it reaches the proper representative so that it goes through the right channels on their end.
Ivan. Hold off for a while. Please. 
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If you took the time to read through Fripp's diary: http://www.dgmlive.com/search_diaries.htm?search=SEARCH+DIARIES&diarist=3&Word_Keyword=copyright&Day=Day&Month=Month&Year=Year&search=SEARCH+DIARIESYou would find that it is indeed Mr Fripp himself that is jealously guarding his copyright. There's no hidden agent.
Edited by Tony R - January 09 2009 at 16:38
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Raff
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Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
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Posted: January 09 2009 at 16:16 |
Some people deal with copyright issues in very odd ways. If you think Fripp is bad, I'll tell you what happened to me and another bunch of people who wrote essays on Tolkien to be published in a book which came out in the fall of last year. In order to use VERY SHORT quotations from Tolkien's work in our essays, we were forced to pay £ 35 per head to HarperCollins (Tolkien's publisher in the UK), because they don't recognise 'fair use', and the publisher of our book wanted to have permission for all quotations used. As in the case of Fripp's lawyers, this means being unable to distinguish between reliable sources (in our case, an academic publisher) and dodgy ones  .
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: January 09 2009 at 15:25 |
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You`re taking this way too personally it seems. I`m going to draft an initial letter post it and see what people think. It seems to me that nobody here at PA even questioned this action, but merely complied ( which was the wise thing to do). I can name a few other artists who are off their trolleys. If they weren`t off their trolleys in some way they wouldn`t be artists. Should see how Gary Larson who drew The Far Side protects his work. . The worst that can come out of this is a straight answer from the King Crimson people. I`ll write the letter and find out who to direct it to over the weekend then post it and see if we want to send it off. Fair enough?
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: January 09 2009 at 14:27 |
No Crimhead, in my case I have all the King Crimson I need, all the albums paid in a store, that's not the point, one song in stream is not piracy, and I wonder why we must understand Mr Fripp's reations.
The general excuse is that he's like this.....nobody has the right to behave in such manner.
Iván
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crimhead
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
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Location: Missouri
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Points: 19236
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Posted: January 09 2009 at 13:45 |
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If you wish to hear any King Crimson....allmusic.com has samples off about 70% of Crimson's library on their site. It appears that the legal team hasn't informed them or they are paying to have the samples on their site.
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: January 09 2009 at 11:00 |
Ivan. Ivan my son. Count from 100 backwards slowly. Imagine pastoral scenes of the English countryside. I understand how you feel. As I mentioned I`m just as riled as the next guy about this. Fripp is indeed an unusual creature but I don`t think he acts this way in order to be treated like you say, a " Prima Donna". It`s part of his nature and , as I said he can change his mind like the wind and has the tendancy to contradict himself. We don`t even know for sure why or how this decision was made. It certainly wasn`t Progarchives alone which perpetuated this action by King Crimson`s legal representatives. As Tony R mentioned earlier anything King Crimson has also even been wiped from the last FM. I have a sneaking suspicion that it was something somebody within the KC organisation saw which broke the proverbial camel`s back. I`m also suprised that Syd Smith hasn`t come forth with anything on this. I still propose a formal letter endorsed by as many collabs as possible to be sent to the appropriate representatives of KC explaining our position. At least I believe we here at PA are entitled to an explanation even if such a letter is to no avail. I volounteer my time to sit down and compose such a letter and post it for all to see and approve prior to sending it off to Mr. Fripp`s people. I`ll also make sur that it reaches the proper representative so that it goes through the right channels on their end. Ivan. Hold off for a while. Please.
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Vompatti
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: October 22 2005
Location: elsewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 67386
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Posted: January 08 2009 at 16:45 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Vibrationbaby wrote:
Order. Order in this Court of the Crimson King. Whoa the horsies! Remember this is Fripp we`re talking about. He is known to have done many impulsive things from time to time. He contradicts himself all the time and you never know what the guy is going to do or say next. I`m probably just as ticked about all this as the next guy, but let`s not overeact. I was at a Crimson concert once and Fripp saw someone pull out a camera and threatened to end the show if he saw it again. Needless to say the camera disappeared.
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That's the problem, Mr Fripp is used to this behaviour because people treat him as a Prima Donna, he needs to know that the fans who buy his albums after 30+ years are the ones who provide him of the status he enjoys.
I believe it's time to say "No more Mr Fripp" and support the bands who want to be supported, the bands that consider fans something more than bodies with a wallett who will buy the albums because he's a "genius".
As an example the I contacted Romanian band Yesterdays via his keyboardist Zsolt Enyedi in order to add themm, he not onlyn sent me a CD autographed by all the members of the band (Very nice detail) but he was so humble that set me like 10 albums if his favorite musicians from Romania, that's hopw a real intelligent and enice person acts, instead of promoting his band, he helped to promote unknown bands from his country.
The real genius is humble enough to know why he is in the place he is, because people keep him there.
People talk about the ego of Rick Wakeman or Roger Waters, but I talked with the first one and seen how carefully the second one treats the audience, they are gentlemen with huge egos, but musicians who respect their fans.
Some of us love some King Crimson music, others love all their stuff, but lets be real, King Crionmson is a band from the past, a band that would be forgotten if sites like Prog Archives didn't kept them alive.
Iván |
As far as prog bands go I'm sure that King Crimson is one of the least likely to be forgotten. And if they ever are forgotten, I can't imagine it having anything to do with the fact that people can't listen to their songs online. They have such a huge reputation (and they deserve it) that anyone who's interested in prog can't avoid coming across them some way or another. The people who are likely to buy their albums will most likely buy them anyway, even if they'd have to risk their money for something they haven't had the chance to listen to beforehand. I think it's outrageous to assume that it's the artist's responsibility to give out some of his stuff for free just so that we can "try it before we buy it".
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: January 08 2009 at 15:54 |
Vibrationbaby wrote:
Order. Order in this Court of the Crimson King. Whoa the horsies! Remember this is Fripp we`re talking about. He is known to have done many impulsive things from time to time. He contradicts himself all the time and you never know what the guy is going to do or say next. I`m probably just as ticked about all this as the next guy, but let`s not overeact. I was at a Crimson concert once and Fripp saw someone pull out a camera and threatened to end the show if he saw it again. Needless to say the camera disappeared.
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That's the problem, Mr Fripp is used to this behaviour because people treat him as a Prima Donna, he needs to know that the fans who buy his albums after 30+ years are the ones who provide him of the status he enjoys.
I believe it's time to say "No more Mr Fripp" and support the bands who want to be supported, the bands that consider fans something more than bodies with a wallett who will buy the albums because he's a "genius".
As an example the I contacted Romanian band Yesterdays via his keyboardist Zsolt Enyedi in order to add themm, he not onlyn sent me a CD autographed by all the members of the band (Very nice detail) but he was so humble that set me like 10 albums if his favorite musicians from Romania, that's hopw a real intelligent and enice person acts, instead of promoting his band, he helped to promote unknown bands from his country.
The real genius is humble enough to know why he is in the place he is, because people keep him there.
People talk about the ego of Rick Wakeman or Roger Waters, but I talked with the first one and seen how carefully the second one treats the audience, they are gentlemen with huge egos, but musicians who respect their fans.
Some of us love some King Crimson music, others love all their stuff, but lets be real, King Crionmson is a band from the past, a band that would be forgotten if sites like Prog Archives didn't kept them alive.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 08 2009 at 16:01
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