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Raff 
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Joined: July 29 2005
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Points: 24392
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 Posted: February 27 2009 at 07:25 |
 chopper wrote:
I love XTC and English Settlement certainly has its proggy moments but I don't consider them to be a prog band and I doubt that Andy Partridge does.
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It may well be true, but then, neither do Fripp or Steven Wilson consider their bands to be prog (and even Cedric of The Mars Volta has said something to that effect). What shall we do then - remove PT, KC and TMV because their leaders disagree with the prog label?
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chopper
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Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
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Points: 19965
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Posted: February 27 2009 at 08:00 |
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
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Points: 29625
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Posted: February 27 2009 at 10:13 |
They don't get to decide whether or not their music is prog. We here at prog archives do. 
Edited by Slartibartfast - February 27 2009 at 11:10
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: February 27 2009 at 11:09 |
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What happens when a band calls themselves Prog .... and we don't?
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What?
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Slartibartfast
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Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
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Points: 29625
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Posted: February 27 2009 at 11:10 |
Dean wrote:
What happens when a band calls themselves Prog .... and we don't? |
I think we're obligated to ridicule them or something. 
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: February 27 2009 at 19:11 |
Here's a link to Summer's Cauldron:
I don't know. Maybe they are just a great pop band.
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debrewguy
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Points: 3596
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Posted: February 27 2009 at 21:49 |
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I'm not sure what band I was listening to lately (Beardfish, Moon Safari???), when I started to wonder if maybe a solid case could be made for the inclusion of XTC. Any fair evaluation would have to be based on listening to English Settlement, Mummer, Skylarking, and Apple Venus. And yes, Crossover is the place where we should be looking for comparisons.
Travels in Nihilon, Sacrificial Bonfire ,Deliver us from the Elements. Indeed both sides of thet LP/Cassette release of Skylarking are suites that contain more than a bit of shared concept per side . And more than a few of their "pop" tunes share a definite prog influence that XOver groups like Supertramp & Split Enz were famous for.
But, the big question - are they really just master pop musicians ? The Beatles we accept as Proto-Prog. 10CC we accept as prog related. SO are XTC damned because of their abilities to write memorable melodies, and their reticence to compose 10 minute opuses ? Do we disregard their instrumental complexities, including the orchestral backing that many of their better tunes have ?
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
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Points: 3449
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Posted: February 28 2009 at 21:27 |
Let's take a -- sorry -- not so brief look at Skylarking.
Summer's Cauldron. Ya got yer chirping crickets, tweeting birds, and some weird wavering synth, aurically sending out heat waves. Then there's that Beatle-like piano and that harmonium-like thing. A little sitar sound thrown in here and there is a nice touch.
Grass. Sounds like an out-take from Magical Mystery Tour. Nice plucked string thing going on there.
The Meeting Place. Segue into the song echoes the beginning of Summer's Cauldron. Again beautiful instrumentation and harmonies.
That's Really Super Supergirl. Obligatory hit single attempt by Partridge -- hey a guy's gotta try to assuage those folks paying the bills. Nice phased keyboards. Nice guitar solo, no arena rock bombast here.
Ballet for a Rainy Day. Pure psychedelia. Maybe it's just the natural 80's version of say, a Sgt. Pepper and Pet Sounds tune
1000 Umbrellas. Andy ain't happy and he's channeling Eleanor Rigby to prove it.
Season Cycle. Yeah, poppy. But as with all of the songs, the chord progressions are never your standard I-IV-V. More great harmonies. Andy's decided to channel Pet Sounds for this one again.
Earn Enough for Us. Great rock tune. Another attempt at a hit in case Supergirl ain't the one. But even as a rock tune it's full of nice melodic twists.
Big Day. Yeah, poppy. But again perfect instrumentation and melodic development. You're the new recruit. In your wedding suit.
Another Satellite. If this song was on an Eno album -- the resemblance is palpable -- it would be commonly accepted as a prog mini-masterpiece.
Mermaid Smiled. Nice acoustic guitars recalling those on Rubber Soul. Someone there is banging on the bongos like a chimpanzee.
The Man Who Sailed Around His Soul. XTC meets beatnik jazz.
Dying. Simple piece, driven by acoustic guitar. But nice orchestral (synth, ya think?) backing and as usual perfect vocals.
Sacrificial Bonfire. Almost anthemic end to this great album. Simple yet evocative melody and instrumentation, with very nice orchestration.
Dear God. Well now Andy's really pissed off. XTC channeling John Lennon in a really bad mood. Again, nice orchestration over the acoustic guitars.
I have not done a great job of describing the little nuances in instrumentation that enhance each song. Nor have I dwelt on the incredible vocals. Maybe they are just the finest pop band of the '80's. Or maybe the are one of the few prog bands of the '80's.
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
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Posted: March 02 2009 at 04:59 |
I love XTC, great albums, fantastic music. The Andy Partridge Fuzzy Warbles set is also very worthwhile.
They'd certainly get my vote.
Crap! Now I've jinxed it!
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
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Points: 19740
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Posted: March 02 2009 at 05:11 |
Raff wrote:
I am not terribly familiar with XTC's output, but I've seen them discussed enough times here to understand the suggestion has some merit. As to their being "80s power pop", we have other bands here part of whose output can be described in the same terms (think Split Enz or Talk Talk) - so, I don't see any problem there. |
Split Enz is here for their early careeer (early Art Rock albums) and Talk Talk for the end of their career (late post rock albums) which both happen to be out the 80 to 86 time range when they were both considered new wave
XTC's proposed albums are exactly in this time frame
(and if X and Y .... then how about Squeeze????  )
Pnoom! wrote:
Based on what I've heard (Drums & Wires, English Settlement, and Skylarking), they don't belong here, and would be very tenuous even in prog related.
They're an excellent pop band, but they're still a pop band. No need to force them into the prog mould just because they're intelligent and occasionally complex.
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Exactly!!!
Captain Capricorn wrote:
I second the notion - they're perfect for crossover...have you guys hears English Settlement? Classic... |
Not perfect for crossover. A few months back, I went torevcisit this album that was supposed to be their proggiest (way more than Black Sea and Drums & Wires) and I found nothing more on ES than the others.
Demented drumming, yes!! Prog? No!!!
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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micky
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Joined: October 02 2005
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Points: 46828
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Posted: March 02 2009 at 06:18 |
with a ringing endorsement like from one who didn't recognize Japan as Xover.... XTC might be perfect As Raff says... it has merit... so the team will look at. Who better to decide what is perfect.. or even right for Xover.. but the team hahhaha.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Carl Snow
Forum Newbie
Joined: November 22 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 20
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Posted: March 15 2009 at 16:10 |
jammun wrote:
Can we revisit this band? They have impeccable prog-someting credentials.
I realize the early output is some sort of 80's power pop (hey, that's what it was), but beginning with English Settlement they started moving into a more prog direction, with regard to songwriting and general sound (give a listen to Jason and the Argonauts or English Roundabout). By the time we get to Skylarking and The Big Express it's as prog as it gets.
Skylarking: concept album, running through the seasons. Rhythmically not very challenging, but those chord changes are quite sophisticated. Nice use of 'noisy' little segues between the songs, not to mention Beatle-esque melodies.
The Big Express: more rhythmically challenging, with the usual first-rate songwriting, with waves of proginess that come streaming out of the speakers. It's almost the sort of album The Beatles might have made had they still existed in the '80s.
Then of course we get what is probably the ultimate re-creation of '60s psychedia with the Dukes of Stratosphear.
I could go on,and will if you wish. |
as could i... menbe i'm too late to this , but as a 43yr-olde prog freak with a big love of 'song' i have to agree with the above 1st (and only) post i've read 'on' this... i've lurked forever awaiting some sign from god or lester bangs (same?) about 'that 1st review ya said ya were gonna write a few years ago" this brings me out progressive = to progress (and yes, i know a pile of other stuff as well ...But) were "punk/pop" allowed the pleasure of a seating in more 'serious' prog-lounges (think Fripp & Hall) such as their stepkids enjoy, the world would be a better and, thank god, more interestng perch. i'll only add to the quoted (and nicely put) post , this one 'lil update Apple Venys 1 and 2 (Wasp Star) are far more progressive than most prog (think we called it neo-prog then, but still) out those days .. XTC was/is one of those rare progressive units that could make a quadrupal-layered cake (Part-Prog Part-'punk' Part-Pop(in its true form) and Part interpretation an enjoyable thing. not excess. no over adornment. just perfect progressive music (of whatever genre traps it) played as flawlessly as it was writen. from spin #1 'White Music' (1976) to the latest "Wasp Star - Apple Venus Pt. 2"., these guys never duplicate themselves... these guys have been amazing and progressing towards-?? for well over 30 years now. they should get in , prog-related, at the very least.
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debrewguy
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Points: 3596
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Posted: March 15 2009 at 17:30 |
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Apple Venus is a good exhibit for the claim of XTC being prog. Orchestral arrangements, intelligent lyrics. I'm not so sure about Vol II, which showed how important Dave Gregory's guitar is to their sound (outside the orchestral compositions). Apples & Oranges could stand in good company with 10CC's (the Godley. Creme, Gouldman, Stewart unit) output. The Big Express is a stretch, but I've had friends tell me they thought that Wake Up was a Pink Floyf song when I first played it for them . And to my ears, some of the other songs on that album, like Seagulls Screaming, All you Pretty Girls, This World Over, and Train Running Low on Soul Coal , do match the prog credentials of groups like XoVer groups like Moon Safari & Beardish. XTC's failing - no lengthy compositions. Outside of the Skylarking suite-like arrangements, they stick to your usual 3-5 minute long song structure.
But then it strikes me that we're making the wrong comparisons. Who am I thinking about ?
Steely Dan. David Bowie. Supertramp. 10CC. Apart from Supie, they didn't write 10 minute opuses. They showed a class pop sensibility. They had the occasional experimental bent.
SO maybe the case we're making is based on the wrong approach. Instead of looking at Symphonic bands, Prog metal or Eclectic, we should really look at the Crossover bunch of bands and see if XTC is a good fit. Or even a better fit than some already there.
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Syzygy
Special Collaborator
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Joined: December 16 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 7003
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Posted: March 15 2009 at 17:44 |
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Several classic albums (if you haven't got Skylarking, go out and buy a copy right now - your life is sadly incomplete) that should be in every open minded prog fan's collection, but they are in no way prog. Likewise Talking Heads and Pere Ubu.
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'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'
Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom
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Carl Snow
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Joined: November 22 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 20
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Posted: May 13 2009 at 11:02 |
Syzygy wrote:
Several classic albums (if you haven't got Skylarking, go out and buy a copy right now - your life is sadly incomplete) that should be in every open minded prog fan's collection, but they are in no way prog. Likewise Talking Heads and Pere Ubu. |
Pere Ubu ? definitely! ...esp. Modern Dance & Dub Housing (& soon we'll arrive at Mission Of Burma -etc)
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
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Posted: May 13 2009 at 14:35 |
Unconditional yes for prog-related from me.
It's not prog, obviously, but somehow they take each track and give it some off-kilter twist that makes it unsuitable for radio play. Very commendable and very interesting.
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jimidom
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 02 2007
Location: Houston, TX USA
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Points: 570
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Posted: May 13 2009 at 15:16 |
How about Dukes of Stratosphear for Psychedelic/ Space Rock? 
Edited by jimidom - May 13 2009 at 15:17
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"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - HST
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debrewguy
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Posted: May 13 2009 at 17:26 |
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I still think that if I took the time, i could post a good 20 songs that would compare favourably to many a crossover band's prog ...
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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jammun
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449
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Posted: May 13 2009 at 23:17 |
debrewguy wrote:
I still think that if I took the time, i could post a good 20 songs that would compare favourably to many a crossover band's prog ... |
debrewguy, I've sorta (and I'm sorry, I said I'd give it up  ) referred back to XTC in the Dire Straits thread recently going on here. XTC was one of the great, ever-evolving, ever-innovating bands of the 80's. They should have at least a shot in some category here based on Skylarking alone.
And as I said in the DS thread, quickly, will someone here please tell me what exactly differentiates the following, all released in '82 (and I am yes simplifying the issue), other than some prog 'pedigree':
Peter Gabriel's Shock The Monkey
Dire Straits' Industrial Disease
Rush's New World Man
XTC's Sense's Working Overtime
These were all in constant play on MTV at the time. I could probably throw in Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow Street of Dreams if we need yet another reference.
My friends, this was what prog sounded like in the 80's, like it or not. It also sounded like Asia's Heat of the Moment.
Just sayin'.
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
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Posted: May 14 2009 at 02:46 |
The debate about XTC's inclusion (or not) has me more excited than any other of these discussions in the past that I've witnessed.
I really, really would like them included here, and I don't see that anybody can deny the prog elements dominantly featured in Skylarking and Apple Venus alone.
And as an added bonus, you get the marvellous gems contained on their other albums as well, all of which are worth exploring.
Partridge as a hell of a character. I read an interview with him once where he was asked how he was using the cash from one of XTC's singles that was a (minor) success, and he answered that it had enabled him to pay for his kitchen extension. Rockstar talking.  |
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XTC one more time
