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Bonnek
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Joined: September 01 2009
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Posted: August 25 2011 at 16:24 |
CCVP wrote:
...commercial pressure from the recording companies may lead the artists to "play safe", what practically does not exist in the metal world. |
Eh, and I would say (Prog) Metal is probably the most complacent and formulaic genre in the world. (Well ok, R&B is worse probably ![LOL LOL](smileys/smiley36.gif) ) There are innovators and original artists of course but 95% is dishing up exactly the kind of stuff that their target audiences/niches want to hear. Those 5 other percents however, that's why I keep digging through all the dirt!
Edited by Bonnek - August 25 2011 at 16:26
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paganinio
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Posted: August 26 2011 at 10:52 |
^^ That is true in any genre. 95% of the stuff from any genre will fall into the formulaic and safe category. It's just normal distribution. I'd argue that prog metal has seen more innovation and variety than in other genres, otherwise it wouldn't have covered such a wide, deep range of human emotions.
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Bonnek
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Posted: August 26 2011 at 11:17 |
So you think 95% of PA stinks? Too bad for you.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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Posted: August 26 2011 at 12:09 |
paganinio wrote:
I'd argue that prog metal has seen more innovation and variety than in other genres, otherwise it wouldn't have covered such a wide, deep range of human emotions.
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Wide and deep range in comparison to what? Rock? Jazz? Classical music? I appreciate that you are very enthusiastic about prog metal, but please do have some perspective. I posit that metal, including prog metal, is generally weak with softer shades, understandably so given that it's called "metal". You may have some decent or even really good power ballads in metal but an Across The Universe? I think not.
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Oliverum
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Location: Estonia
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Posted: August 26 2011 at 12:31 |
I think a bit of truth lies in most of the explanations given here, but I'd like to add my thoughts to it. Firstly it is my experience that prog metal is the easiest genre for a listener to get into prog for many reasons: 1) Many of the bands have achieved huge commercial success and it grows as they gather new fans 2) Bands such as Rush, DT, Symphony X and others have created sort of a mixed genre, a bridge over the gap between traditional '70s prog and contemporary mainstream rock music. And also that is very true:
Gerinski wrote:
I guess it's only normal that many young people tend to enjoy high-energy music rather than pastoral or symphonic qualities. |
And one other thing: I always get a bit sceptical when I read posts from people saying that from their early childhood they listened to hardcore prog from their father's vinyl collection and have loved it from the first moment they heard it, while others only enjoyed Dido, Backstreet Boys or whatever pop music. That is normal, but it is a psychological effect - you associate music with pleasant childhood memories (first emotions created by hearing music, being with family etc), not to mention that children are more receptive to different things overall. What interests me more is people who grow from pop music into prog through their musical journey by asking questions and seeking new sensations and emotions. That is where prog metal comes into play... or some other crossover
genre, to be honest. I for example became interested in prog through
Jaga Jazzist and DT's SFaM simultaneously.
Edited by Oliverum - August 26 2011 at 12:37
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All the best freaks are here, please stop staring at me. Marillion - Freaks (1988).
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wjohnd
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Joined: August 16 2011
Location: Scotland, UK
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Posted: August 26 2011 at 12:36 |
It's quite simple for me really... when I was 14-18 or so i listened to the likes of UFO, Rush, Yes, Rainbow, Genesis, Tull, Motorhead and Iron Maiden.
The prog metal bands (when they produce their best) are a mixture of the different rock styles I already enjoyed so what's not to like?
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javier0889
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Location: Chile
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Posted: August 26 2011 at 18:44 |
Because for a very long time, DT was probably the only progressive band that achieved a certain popularity and cult following. For a lot of people of my age (I'm 22) it was the only "prog rock" reference they have, still today. My first prog rock band was ELP i believe, and I was just a little boy when I first heard of them, but I always regarded them as classic rock mostly because I didn't knew what "progressive rock" was at the time, although I was also a big Pink Floyd fan. But when I heard stuff like Octavarium, Images And Words, and also LTE's debut, it opened me a whole world of weird music. By that time I was like 15 and also liked Maiden, so hearing a band playing "my" prog rock mixed with "my" metal was completely awesome, as it has been said.
In my opinion, older people shoudln't be too hard on youngsters who only know DT. Don't ask them about Mahavishnu Orchestra or Dixie Dregs because it's obvious that they will not know those bands. Most of the times, the people who lived the golden yeard of prog and neo prog often hear the "prog metal" label and just say "meh....", but it's very true that we should thank DT for keeping prog rock's spirit alive.
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http://www.last.fm/user/javier0889
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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Points: 34550
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Posted: August 26 2011 at 18:49 |
Well it's no longer the 1970's for one reason ![LOL LOL](smileys/smiley36.gif) ![LOL LOL](smileys/smiley36.gif) All music changes, progresses, if I may ![Tongue Tongue](smileys/smiley17.gif) at least it should. Us youngins still love the classics, KC is one of my all time favorite bands and have produced more great work than most others I can think of. But it was time to move on. Also, adding metal to progressive rock does give it another dynamic. Just more variation and stuff you can do.
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Henry Plainview
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Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
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Posted: August 26 2011 at 18:56 |
Bonnek wrote:
So you think 95% of PA stinks? Too bad for you. |
It weirds me out when other people don't dislike most of anything.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
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Posted: August 26 2011 at 19:02 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
Bonnek wrote:
So you think 95% of PA stinks? Too bad for you. |
It weirds me out when other people don't dislike most of anything. |
I second this. Only a small percent of any genre actually thrills me.
Thing is, in (progressive) heavy metal there is no major thing on the way to "progress", so even if most is formulaic or uninteresting, there isn't an external force holding the little inovation there is from existing.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
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Location: .
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Posted: August 27 2011 at 00:01 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
Bonnek wrote:
So you think 95% of PA stinks? Too bad for you. |
It weirds me out when other people don't dislike most of anything. |
Ninja'd ![Wink Wink](http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif) though I think people also do find some niche or style where, rather than 95%, they dislike say only 80% of the stuff . I am very liberal with Indian music because I grew up listening to it but not as liberal as those who listen to nothing but Indian music.
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rogerthat
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Posted: August 27 2011 at 00:03 |
CCVP wrote:
Thing is, in (progressive) heavy metal there is no major thing on the way to "progress", so even if most is formulaic or uninteresting, there isn't an external force holding the little inovation there is from existing. |
That kinda applies to most rock based genres because rock was born as music for entertainment, essentially, and that remains the chief motivation for writing rock, not progressing music.
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ghost_of_morphy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755
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Posted: August 27 2011 at 09:53 |
paganinio wrote:
The question is why. Why has metal become so prevalent during the last 10-15 years? |
Maybe it's because those of us in the first wave of prog fans are beginning to die off?
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ExittheLemming
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Posted: August 27 2011 at 09:55 |
^ Interesting point certainly. It should also been borne in mind that even run of the mill orchestral classical players are at a level of virtuosity far in advance of that of most chopmeisters in rawk - (and they need to be to tackle the contemporary repertoire)
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Jbird
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Points: 338
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Posted: August 27 2011 at 13:00 |
I'd point out too that some of these albums and groups listed under 'prog metal' aren't really metal.
Haken, Porcupine Tree, and others.
Don't mistake me, I'm in no way, shape, or form a 'genre nazi' but just because a group has loud distorted guitar on occasion does not make them metal.
Porcupine Tree being a case in point. Maybe my favorite band right now. I would never call them metal, and I've been a big metal-head since the late '70s.
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wjohnd
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Joined: August 16 2011
Location: Scotland, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 327
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Posted: August 27 2011 at 16:28 |
Jbird wrote:
I'd point out too that some of these albums and groups listed under 'prog metal' aren't really metal.
Haken, Porcupine Tree, and others.
Don't mistake me, I'm in no way, shape, or form a 'genre nazi' but just because a group has loud distorted guitar on occasion does not make them metal.
Porcupine Tree being a case in point. Maybe my favorite band right now. I would never call them metal, and I've been a big metal-head since the late '70s. |
indeed... rawk. but not sabbathy
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Oliverum
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Joined: April 30 2010
Location: Estonia
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Posted: August 27 2011 at 17:45 |
Jbird wrote:
I'd point out too that some of these albums and groups listed under 'prog metal' aren't really metal.
Haken, Porcupine Tree, and others.
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I believe Haken and Porcupine tree are listed under heavy prog...
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All the best freaks are here, please stop staring at me. Marillion - Freaks (1988).
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jav1919
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 30 2011
Location: Costa Rica
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Points: 101
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Posted: August 27 2011 at 23:49 |
Well, I don't think of PT as metal. And I don't even see the bad thing here, prog metal is fine
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Dancing Lemming
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Joined: August 27 2011
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Points: 9
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Posted: August 28 2011 at 07:28 |
Ugh, I'm not a prog metal fan, and I despise most metal, unless it's something really slow and extreme, like drone that concentrates more on riff than solo. I've always had a Sabbath/Blue Cheer/Melvins attitude, where I prefer slowness to speed.
The reason I stray away from metal though, is that it tends to go towards a "I'm heavier/can do a longer solo than you" approach, and forgets about all other aspects of the music.
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ProcolWho?
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Joined: May 06 2007
Location: New york
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Points: 160
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Posted: August 29 2011 at 21:05 |
hair bands have always been more popular with the flotsam and jetsam that make up the masses.
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