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Finnforest 
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 Posted: February 25 2014 at 21:00 |
 Atavachron wrote:
I'm afraid I largely agree with Neil, though I would make their "first album" Hemispheres or AFtK.
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Well then you don't really agree with him David because you're pulling back almost half of the work he put on the curb.
Edited by Finnforest - February 25 2014 at 21:04
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Mellotron Storm
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Posted: February 25 2014 at 21:03 |
Finnforest wrote:
Nah...you're not overreacting John...I know exactly how you feel.
And yes, Ged comments about the same issue in this book but with more balance. He talks about Caress and while admitting some of the shortcomings, he talks about their grand ambitions and passions with fondness, and says there are "beautiful moments" despite being ponderous (Lamneth).
He also recalls fondly the "funny aromas" in the control room while cutting Caress. No wonder I love that album
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Peart is so serious compared to Lifeson and Lee and this was before the tragedies in his life. He's a reflective guy and is probably too hard on himself and his craft. I don't want to say he's self absorbed 'cause I don't know him but he's excelled at everything he does so I can see how his song writing from the early years might embarass him. Thanks for sharing that about the Caress Of Steel sessions.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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Atavachron
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Posted: February 25 2014 at 21:08 |
Finnforest wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
I'm afraid I largely agree with Neil, though I would make their "first album" Hemispheres or AFtK. |
Well then you don't really agree with him David because you're pulling back almost half of the work he put on the curb. |
It's true, my favorite Rush period is between 78 and 82, but I kinda know what he means about the stuff before that. It's strange 'cause I usually like a band's early stuff. Or maybe it's because Hem was the first record I ever owned.
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Finnforest
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Posted: February 25 2014 at 21:10 |
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And I agree with you David about stretching it to 82, or even through Grace, as their primo period. It's the post 85 stuff that I think falls off fast and never truly comes back. Yeah, it's quality "product" as they say, but in terms of excitement, thrills, and true gut punch...nah. It's oldster rock.
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Catcher10
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Posted: February 25 2014 at 21:23 |
Hmmm....well I too tend to agree with him. Lets just say the early stuff was well early material. We as adults all have something in our younger years, lets say elementary age, that when we look back we go WHAT???!! I did that!! I like his example of the children's drawing....if you have some take a look at them, pretty silly stuff if you ask me, unless of course I am the parent of that child artist then it is pure brilliance!! As the perfectionists they are, I suspect they acknowledge the fact that the early material was too weird, trying to be deep in a 2" pond of water.....and since he is the lyricist, some of that stuff was kooky by todays standards of his writings, or maybe that is what he is trying to convey, not actually dissing the early stuff but more their age. They have advanced both musically and lyrically.......I am currently listening to Vapor Trails, Secret Touch is insane lyrics as well as much of the album is. There are some stinkers in the early days as well as the post MP albums.....He just can't keep writing about Cygnus X-1 and The Fountain of Lamneth. As a teenager that was brilliance to me, as an adult I find it quirky explaning the lyrics to my kids. That being said I still long for this concert setlist: Side I 2112 Cygnus X-1 Cygnus X-1 Book 2 AFTK La Villa Strangiato By-Tor & The Snowdog The Necromancer Fountain of Lamneth Xanadu Encore:
Fly By Night In The Mood Working Man
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The Dark Elf
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Posted: February 25 2014 at 21:27 |
Finnforest wrote:
I really
wish they would just go away. I think we really started....wow, given
my druthers, I would make our first album "Moving Pictures." I can't
think of a single reason not to do that!"
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Perfect! I began not caring for them before he claims they started. That makes me prescient. 
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Finnforest
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Posted: February 25 2014 at 21:27 |
Nice set list Jose! (except I'd trade "In the Mood" for "Anthem.") A minor quibble. Let's go! 
Edited by Finnforest - February 25 2014 at 21:28
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jude111
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Posted: February 25 2014 at 21:44 |
Finnforest wrote:
Wondering what Rush fans think of a recent Neil Peart quote, which would seem to diss some of their most beloved albums....
No 2112, no Hemispheres, no Permanent Waves??? Say it ain't so Neil!
"Those
were the growing years. I often equate that to children's drawings on
the refrigerator that hang around too long, you know?
I really
wish they would just go away. I think we really started....wow, given
my druthers, I would make our first album "Moving Pictures." I can't
think of a single reason not to do that!"
Great drummer, but I think he's cracked on this one. I love their early work.
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I think he's being defensive. For a great many Rush fans, the band could have called it quits after Moving Pictures. I feel that way. I'm not interested in Rush (or King Crimson for that matter) trying to be the Talking Heads. It must frustrate him though.
Edited by jude111 - February 25 2014 at 21:44
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Neo-Romantic
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Posted: February 25 2014 at 21:53 |
I can't think of any creative artist who believes in their material who won't say their most recent stuff is the culmination of a journey that's long been in progress. Think of the alternative: you hit your peak early and spent your entire life making at best (in your view) silver metal material.
Naturally, we don't always agree with their assertions, but hey, that's the beauty of having opinions and references! It's the same reason why some people say Islands is their favorite KC album when it isn't ranked anywhere near the top. They definitely matured and put out a lot of material over the years that showed a clear focusing in their writing, lyrically and musically. Their stuff without a doubt became more polished over the years and didn't ever lose that creative spark. Just became more tightly packaged and evolved with the times. Nothing inherently wrong with that. I just know I personally wouldn't speak against my early works because A) It disrespects a God-given talent and the material that issued forth from it at the time, B) It might offend a listener who holds it in such high regard, and C) It has the potential to prevent you from revisiting earlier ideas to reinvigorate your stuff later in your career that could still hold some untapped artistic potential. This all being said, I personally think they were at their best with Hemispheres and Permanent Waves. Both masterpieces in my book.
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Progosopher
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Posted: February 26 2014 at 00:36 |
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There is often a disjunct between the impression artists and fans have of their work. The quip about pictures on the refrigerator is a great comparison but it might overstate his point. Artists need to grow, to push beyond the boundaries that keep them in one place, but does this mean that the older works or meaningless or terrible? I don't think so. They may be relatively primitive but they also serve as stepping stones to the later work. I for one am not a big fan of Caress of Steel, but I do enjoy it to a degree and can see how it laid the groundwork for 2112, which in turn laid down the ground work for A Farewell to Kings, which in turn, etc. It is a process, one we have plenty of records on, i.e. the albums themselves. To paraphrase Buddha: One takes a canoe to get across the river. Once on the other side, one no longer needs the canoe - on land it is only an encumbrance. But it is also worthless to curse the canoe now that it has served its function. Maybe he feels he has moved on from the themes he explored in years past. Or maybe he is just tired of playing Working Man.
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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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richardh
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Posted: February 26 2014 at 01:21 |
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Its weird though that he considers Moving Pictures as their first mature album and not Permanent Waves. They are virtually identical in approach and both have powerful material. Needs further explanation. For me Hemispheres is a bit of a bore but I do like 2112 and AFTK. I only like one song off the first 3 albums (By-Tor) so they can be consigned to the 'bin' from my perspective.
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Atavachron
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Posted: February 26 2014 at 02:02 |
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^ and in many ways Waves is more sophisticated than the flashier Pictures
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rdtprog
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Posted: February 26 2014 at 03:54 |
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Maybe Neil is thinking about the struggle the band had to made their earlier albums. The members of Yes had this same perspective with "CTTE", but those albums were well received by the fans and reviewers. I think that those older albums were a essential part of the band's history and you can't make them go away. As a fan, i wish i could erase the Rush's era 90's et +, but i can't...
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Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness.
Emile M. Cioran
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Blacksword
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Posted: February 26 2014 at 04:29 |
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I'd be surprised if a lot of long established musicians are not critical of their early work. He's entitled to his opinion. It's his work, after all. I disagree with him of course. Parts of some of those earlier albums do sound like a very young band finding their feet. People often do forget how young Rush were when they got their break. Geddy was only 21 when they recorded FBN, and what Neil perhaps neglects to acknowledge is that had it not been for those albums he appears not to like, their wouldn't have been a Moving Pictures at all. Each album was a natural progression from the last, and clearly MP would not have turned out the way it did had it not been for Permenant Waves.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Libor10
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Posted: February 26 2014 at 05:42 |
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If it wouldn't be for 2112 I never listen to Rush. Although second side of the LP is weaker I remember how I was overwhelmed by the the first side (=2112 song). I love all their records from this onward to, say, Signals. Then I gradually lost interest for them. It's hard to say why, but it seems to me they started to be mechanical, without sparkle or so (no, their playing skills and lyrics etc. was and is great, but their records seems to me cold without passion). So the period between 2112 and Signals is the best for me and I cannot agree with Neil here.
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chopper
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Posted: February 26 2014 at 06:39 |
Finnforest wrote:
Wondering what Rush fans think of a recent Neil Peart quote, which would seem to diss some of their most beloved albums....
No 2112, no Hemispheres, no Permanent Waves??? Say it ain't so Neil!
"Those were the growing years. I often equate that to children's drawings on the refrigerator that hang around too long, you know?
I really wish they would just go away. I think we really started....wow, given my druthers, I would make our first album "Moving Pictures." I can't think of a single reason not to do that!"
Great drummer, but I think he's cracked on this one. I love their early work.
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druthers ???
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Blacksword
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Posted: February 26 2014 at 07:32 |
chopper wrote:
Finnforest wrote:
Wondering what Rush fans think of a recent Neil Peart quote, which would seem to diss some of their most beloved albums....No 2112, no Hemispheres, no Permanent Waves??? Say it ain't so Neil! "Those were the growing years. I often equate that to children's drawings on the refrigerator that hang around too long, you know?I really wish they would just go away. I think we really started....wow, given my druthers, I would make our first album "Moving Pictures." I can't think of a single reason not to do that!" Great drummer, but I think he's cracked on this one. I love their early work. |
druthers ??? |
I think he means if it had been down to him; if he'd had his own way..etc
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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lazland
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Posted: February 26 2014 at 07:54 |
I can see where he is coming from, to a degree.
My take? Rock bands can be compared to us mortals. When young, you are learning, make mistakes, and are sometimes naive.
You then mature, progress career, have kids, become boring old fart, but produce best work.
You get old, and, by and large, live off of past glories.
Rush, Yes,.......could probably name a pile more to whom this applies.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
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altaeria
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Posted: February 26 2014 at 11:24 |
Meanwhile... Slumped over his bar stool next to Neil's, and keeping up with Neil shot-for-shot... Chris Squire blurted out, "I agree! And every [YES] album before [BIG] GENERATOR was complete and utter rubbish!"
Edited by altaeria - February 26 2014 at 11:25
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Evolver
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Posted: February 26 2014 at 11:30 |
Right, Mr. Peart. We here at ProgArchives.com have assigned a crack team of data scrubbers to erase any indication of those early albums that now offend you. Very soon, you will not see any mention of  , or , and especially . So don't worry, Neil, you will never have to acknowledge that you once played . |
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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Neil Peart down on band's 70s work
