American Politics the 2016 edition |
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 29 2005 Location: Lilliwaup, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
Posted: February 21 2016 at 21:36 | |
America is built on the hard work of generations of common people. America is not responsible for the entire world's problems. People are the same worldwide, to think differently is ridiculous.
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ClemofNazareth
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Researcher Joined: August 17 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4659 |
Posted: February 24 2016 at 12:30 | |
Thanks Steven. Love you Raff but I have to disagree on some of your points. I don't believe this country is built on "the worship of wealth and success". Actually there are huge numbers of fundamentalist evangelicals who believe it was built on bent-knee deference to an ancient Jewish rabbi. And in their defense, many of them practice what they preach and eschew wealth and material success in favor of more ethereal goals. There is a strong argument to be made that the U.S. was built on principles of personal liberties and, hand-in-hand with that, personal responsibility, but that's probably a topic for a different thread. And sure, there are a few powerful and often unscrupulous people who take advantage of an economic and political system for personal gain, but how is that different than every society that has ever existed in civilized history? Why a different standard for the U.S. than for everyone else when it comes to greedy and self-serving members of society? Part of personal responsibility is not letting oneself become a victim. And the "American Dream" as it was taught to me wasn't about getting rich or powerful. The point was that anyone could come from anywhere and change their circumstances here, and there wasn't anyone who could legally or morally stop them. That doesn't mean a guarantee of wealth or success or power or prestige or fame, just an opportunity. Anyone who knows me knows I'm not a flag-waver or one of Trump's "poorly educated" minions. But I do believe that Dream still exists because I lived it. My wife lived it. And my parents lived it. We came from very little, worked hard, and now have something to show for it and some measure of respect in our communities. And we've raised kids who both contribute to, and get something back from, their communities. That's the whole point, nothing more. But back to the 2016 election - man, what a mess. The best people in our country are all unfortunately too smart to run for public office, so this is what we're left with. Worst-case scenario: a) Republicans decide to have a brokered convention and nominate Rubio (Rubio is already trying to arrange this). b) Democrats nominate Hillary thanks to all her insider super delegates, even though Sanders is much more popular with younger, more educated and party-base voters (seems almost certain to happen). c) Trump runs as an independent and wins in a landslide thanks to both Republican and Democratic voters who are sickened by the insider dealing and having their parties abandon them by not allowing the more popular candidates to gain nominations. Could happen ... |
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"Peace is the only battle worth waging."
Albert Camus |
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 29 2005 Location: Lilliwaup, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
Posted: February 24 2016 at 12:39 | |
Our founders certainly never intended for a permanent class of elitists to rule over us. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-18/79-members-congress-have-been-office-least-20-years
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20619 |
Posted: February 24 2016 at 12:55 | |
That may be true philosophically but weren't most of them elitists themselves so to speak regarding their education, holdings , and positions...? |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 29 2005 Location: Lilliwaup, Wa. Status: Offline Points: 5319 |
Posted: February 24 2016 at 13:03 | |
Politics I guess is the rich man's game.
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Windhawk
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 28 2006 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 11401 |
Posted: February 24 2016 at 13:06 | |
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Websites I work with:
http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46833 |
Posted: February 24 2016 at 14:14 | |
just goes to how worthless polls are.. I'll put it on record here... for all to see. I buy a 6 pack of whatever beer you want.. for everyone on this damn forum if Sanders became President Just as this country will never elect a far right wing wacko.. they'll especially never elect one seen as a leftist liberal. Obviously I don't think he is...compared to the rest ..even Hillary he will sure be seen that way and this country has a natural 'righty' lean to start with and is more prone to elect someone more to edge of hard right than hard left. Regarless of what he really ..perception is often reality when it comes to politics. Only Cruz would make him look less extreme mainly because I think even right leaning voters think Cruz is f**king lunatic. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46833 |
Posted: February 24 2016 at 14:25 | |
great post Bob let me pick something out of that to take this further... the "American Dream" as it was taught to me wasn't about getting rich or powerful. The point was that anyone could come from anywhere and change their circumstances here do you really think that still applies today.. it seems to me (and others) to not be the case. Ie there are a lot of people and one political party with a vested interest in playing the politics of fear and division... and forgetting about the American dream unless one is white and born here... I do hear the sentiment that this country is not what it was when they were younger and things have changed here and NOT for the better.. yes I do blame the GOP for it but that is beside the point, who might be responsible for it. The point of contention is ... those admirable notions are one of the core founding aspects of this country. A good number of people think we have completely lost track of that.. and NOT coincidentally....not being less a nation to be proud of having lost sight of what once made this country great. thoughts? Edited by micky - February 24 2016 at 14:30 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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ClemofNazareth
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Researcher Joined: August 17 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4659 |
Posted: February 24 2016 at 15:42 | |
Is the country a better place than it was in the past? I'm not sure. Certainly an argument can be made either way. There certainly have been plenty of darker days in our history. - 85 years ago the unemployment rate was over 25% and we were living through the biggest financial crisis in history. Today unemployment is a fraction of that and inflation is almost non-existent. - in the 1950s more than half of blacks in the U.S. lived below the poverty level. Today that rate is about 24%. - in 1945 we killed or injured more than 300,000 Japanese civilians in the name of "peace". A couple years before that we rounded up 120,000 Americans and put them in internment camps just because of their ethnicity. - in the 1960s we saw the murders of John F Kennedy, Robert Kennedy, Malcolm X, Martin Luther King and scores of civil rights workers and protesters throughout the South. Lots of countries have had coups and assassinations and political upheaval since 1963, but in that half-century the worst political issue we've had is a bunch of idiots running the country. - also in the 1960s the president had to send federal troops to escort little girls to school just to ensure they were allowed in because they were the 'wrong color'. - in the 1980s the federal government had to take control of the public schools in Kansas City because the city was enforcing segregation and unequal education. This was in 1985, not 1885! So yeah, a lot of things suck in the U.S. today. Could be worse, and it has been. That's not an excuse of course, but I think sometimes we have to take a broader view. Today I've been married for almost 30 years to an immigrant minority and nobody bats an eyelash. That wasn't true even when we got married. Home ownership rates in the U.S. are among the highest in the world. We have the oldest working constitution and continuous government of any country in the world. So like I said, things could definitely be better, but if I had to pick a time to live in the U.S. I'm not sure I can think of a better one. Glass half full, I guess ... |
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"Peace is the only battle worth waging."
Albert Camus |
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garfunkel
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 03 2015 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 209 |
Posted: February 24 2016 at 18:23 | |
Please skip this post! It's stupid.
Most of y'all are left-leaning, so I'm just looking for an opinion in where I stack up against right-wingers, and if I would be a candidate as a possible friend with you ... This site labels me as a Centrist/Libertarian. http://www.isidewith.com/elections/2016-presidential/1966454820 I don't really 'side' with any candidate too heavily. Highest is 73% Rubio, and a couple spots down 69% Sanders My mind is boggled regarding politics right now and I doubt I'll vote, unless Zappa comes back from the dead. I don't like any of the these candidates at all really. Edited by garfunkel - February 24 2016 at 21:42 |
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46833 |
Posted: February 26 2016 at 15:36 | |
^ *sounds of crickets chirping* btw.. in the wild west days of this site we didn't limit our search and destroy missions to 'DT fan' we also took great pleasure in trying to eradicate libertarians.
yeah.. politics can be pretty mind boggling. If one tries to take a view that candidates should be likeable and the kind of people you'd consider having a friend. Pfff.. they are all crooks, cheats and the highest from of leaches of the taxpayer dollar. Don't not vote. It is as much a duty as well as a responsibility IMO. I assume you have opinions on your economic welfare... the state of this nation. Take stock of where your heart and/or your mind is taking you.. and you vote/support will follow. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 66205 |
Posted: February 26 2016 at 15:48 | |
Methinks that they need to change the voting options to include "None of the Above". I'm pretty sure that if all of the people who don't vote and came out to vote to choose "None of the Above" since that was the reason they weren't voting, "None of the Above" would win every time.
Edited by rushfan4 - February 26 2016 at 15:48 |
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46833 |
Posted: February 26 2016 at 15:48 | |
excellent post again Bob. Indeed glass half full... It is definitely worth noting that indeed things have been a lot worse here in the past and we have made some progress in those things. Where the glass is half empty is completely regressing in other areas. Economic mobility being a prime one in my mind, thus a vital component of the 'american dream' is rendered moot unless one considers progress... and the american dream to move here from some sh*t hole to perhaps not have your life outrightly threatened.. but to be still treated as a outsider, invader and corruptor of core american values. Assuming of course one was able to navigate the miles and miles of roadblocks this country has thrown in potential immigrants paths. I would think that most of us could and would agree that we have become a much more clearly delinated society of haves and have nots and with ongoing 30 year war, and resulting shrinking of the middle class, there is much less chance today of ecomomic mobility. Hard work gets you survival for many.. not a way up the ladder. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46833 |
Posted: February 26 2016 at 15:55 | |
that sounds like the best option from the GOP field doesn't it I'd even vote Republican for the first time in my life just to cast that vote.... I don't vote candates btw.. it isn't a dog and pony popularly show. You don't have to like them. I often shook my head about those who voted for W because.. I liked him.. the guy of kine I'd have a beer with. REALLY! I vote for the candidate/party that mirror my views .. even if they don't act or follow through.. at least the other side isn't in charge. Edited by micky - February 26 2016 at 15:57 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 22 2007 Location: Michigan, U.S. Status: Offline Points: 66205 |
Posted: February 26 2016 at 16:29 | |
As a white middle-class/upper-middle-class professional male, it is in my best interest to vote Republican...but I have always been a Social Democrat. It just sits better with my belief system...but sadly most things that matter don't really matter to me personally.
I'll never need an abortion. I'm not ever marrying another dude. I'm not an immigrant and have little concern of illegal immigrants taking my job. I am not a minority. My employers have always provided me with health insurance so I'm actually a little worse off because of ObamaCare. I don't believe that I will ever do anything that will result in me facing the death penalty. Although I support gun control...the reality is that cat got out of the bag long ago and the truth is that if "you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns". I respect people's rights to own guns and living 8 miles from the city of Detroit, I fully understand why "normal" citizens would want to own guns to protect their families. I've never collected unemployment nor welfare...I appreciate the safety net being there, but fully believe that the system is broken and needs to be fixed. Something needs to be done to make abusers employable. I am not in the military and currently do not have any family members in the military so war or no war has no personal effect on me. I believe that peaceful means and diplomacy is generally the right way of things, but sometimes, whether we like it or not, the USA needs to step in and be the "parent" to make the misbehaving "children" behave. Yes, that is US arrogance, but that is the role that our ancestors have chosen for us to be the world's policeman. Everything screams at me that I should be a Republican, but aside from arguably being more fiscally responsible, nothing about the Republican side appeals to me. Number one on my list being the religious fanatics. Being Agnostic, every phony religious thing that comes out of Republican politicians mouths irks me. From my point of view, they are either smart enough to know better and are lying through their teeth or they are gullible and have no business governing over men. I respect people's rights to believe in the flying spaghetti monster or whatever else you want to believe in but don't force your beliefs upon me. The sad part is that many of those beliefs are actually not really such a bad thing...i.e. the ten commandments. Teaching people morals is actually a good thing, for the most part. etc. etc. etc. |
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lazland
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13600 |
Posted: February 26 2016 at 16:52 | |
Scott, you will know that we will disagree regarding the religious bit, but I have to say that I love this post. Extremely thoughtful and considered |
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
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Drew
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 20 2005 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 12600 |
Posted: February 26 2016 at 16:56 | |
I say give Obama another 4 years (just make it happen somehow)
We are screwed. I cant stand that not matter who is a candidate, we show allegiance, despite how awful the whole lot can be. I'm avoiding the news at all costs until this abomination of an election is over. This is the best we can do??
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46833 |
Posted: February 26 2016 at 17:07 | |
damn right Scott. I vote my conscious .. not as something as selfish as my pocketbook. I'll never be a woman (try as I did), never be gay (even though many have thought I was) nor black (though I have as much SOUL baby as any) but damnit man... my conscious.. and my strong sense of right and wrong.. AND very strongly held notion of what this country.. was and no longer is.. tells me that my personal concerns are petty. My vote is for a better .. more socially diverse country where who you are, or who you choose to sleep with means NOTHING to anyone but ones selves and should never EVER be grounds for discrimation. and don't buy the crap Scott... the days of fiscal responsibility being a corner stone of conversative (GOP) poitics are many years and many Presidents in the past. Yes they will cut taxes for you... but it only runs up the deficit when you don't bring in enough to cover what the government is supposed to do.. provide for its people. |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46833 |
Posted: February 26 2016 at 17:39 | |
oh and getting back on topic.. though off topic divergence is always welcome here ( it is my thread of course and have made a career here of going off topic)
it looks like the Trump v. Rubio (movements orchestrated by his puppeteers and words written by his handlers in the GOP establishment) bloodbath has begun in earnest. This will be fun... American scorched Earth politics at its best. time to break out the popcorn.. and the (craft) beer! |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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EddieRUKiddingVarese
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 04 2016 Location: Aust Status: Offline Points: 1802 |
Posted: February 26 2016 at 17:50 | |
The 2016 Presidential election has been described as the Countdown to Extinction. Why don't you immigrate to somewhere saner and safer Australia even, you could wrestle crocs for free that must be safer than Detroit. Or Just change your leaders every time the wind changes, like we do in Oz. We've had 5 in 5 years, good going I say- don't let 'em settle into anything they can only cause harm...... Our last outgoing Leader Tony Abbott's said on being kicked out "a febrile media culture has developed that rewards treachery"? You gotta love the way pollies speak, keep em on there toes I say. |
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"Everyone is born with genius, but most people only keep it a few minutes"
and I need the knits, the double knits! |
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