Stargazer vs Achilles Last Stand

Derek50 wrote: And I have the opposite situation, Achilles in my humble opinion beats all the crap out of his opponent. Achilles is a powerful panoramic composition and it is in it that Paige jumped above his head, above his capabilities. And yes, Achilles does touch the strings of my soul....and Richie is cold and everything is by metronome for him ))))

Paige is good but never had the feeling that he was ever near Ritchie's ability. I've not really heard a better guitarist then Ritchie but sure he is technical in approach at times (maybe all the time but not sure) but I feel that he is communicating an idea ( I don't hear that with Paige at all) much like Steve Hackett used to do on things like Firth of Fifth for instance. It gets deep into your soul. Paige was just a decent blues guitarist raised higher being in a band with Bonzo (a drum monster) and the best vocalist of the rock era. IMO

Atavachron wrote: Page is misunderstood, a purposefully ragged player whose soulful approach is misinterpreted as sloppy & simplistic, and a far greater composer than any of his contemporaries such as Beck, Clapton, Hendrix, or Blackmore.   It's a shame.

Hard disagree. In no era or timeline is Page better than either Blackmore or especially Beck.

Forbes:

Cooper: Oh yeah, who wouldn't want to interview Bob Dylan? I've never interviewed Bob Dylan. And the easiest one in the world would be Paul McCartney. He's the nicest person you've ever met in your life. I did a really good interview with Jeff Beck one time. In fact I said I look at it this way: Jimmy Page best rock and roll guitar player; Jimi Hendrix, most inventive guitar player; Eric Clapton best blues player; Jeff Beck, best guitar player. And he went, "Yeah, that's right."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevebaltin/2020/04/05/qa-alice-cooper-on-his-new-podcast-guns-n-roses-jimmy-page-and-hanging-with-pink-floyd-in-1968/#79b0ee38789a

Atavachron wrote: ^ They both agree Page is the best rock player, and basically they'd be right.   I love both Beck & Hendrix but they don't approach Page's overall accomplishments.   Besides, I said Page is a superior composer, and I stand by it.

Alice punctuates the rundown by saying Jeff Beck is the best overall guitar player of the bunch. That's what he's getting at. And I agree. Beck had a fantastic career all the way up till he left us. Even when he made pop, he wasn't coasting. He went from strength to strength.

If by Page's overall accomplishments, you mean album unit sales by way of Led Zeppelin and The Firm, I guess you may have a point. Hendrix died too young, and Beck veered into fusion (and I love every single bit of it). But while Page is exclusively a rock fan's guitarist, Beck's biggest fans are the musicians, and everyone else.

I'm not trying to offend you, but I'm not into anything Page has done after the '70s. I can't say the same for guys like Beck, Blackmore, Rundgren, Fripp, Buck Dharma, Kerry Livgren, Tony Iommi, Todd Rundgren, Al Di Meola, John McLaughlin, Ronnie Montrose...yes, really! If you've ever heard Ronnie's solo instrumental albums, e.g. Open Fire, The Diva Station, Mutatis Mutandis, etc., along with the first two by Gamma, you'll know what an underrated player and composer he is.

Atavachron wrote: If you believe Blackmore trumps Page you must have grown up in a different universe.

The universe my ears occupy, correct. Worry not, I've had friends who were hardcore LZ fans. One of them became a drummer thanks to John Bonham and (long before I met him) was dismayed when he realized he'd never get to see LZ because Bonham died, and the band was over. He got to see ELP in '77 (we both caught the Black Moon tour) and that's when he realized he wanted to be a serious musician (he loved Carl Palmer, yet Bonham was his primary influence).

Atavachron wrote: Are you a guitarist ?

Are you?

verslibre wrote: AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: Why not make it a poll? He explained why he can't yet. AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: Stargazer is a bit overrated. Blasphemy. P.S. LZ is overrated.

I posted that before he explained it. Doh!

Finnforest wrote: Atavachron wrote: Page is misunderstood, a purposefully ragged player whose soulful approach is misinterpreted as sloppy & simplistic, and a far greater composer than any of his contemporaries such as Beck, Clapton, Hendrix, or Blackmore.   It's a shame.    Yep. Totally agree on that. My whole life "guitar people" have tried to explain why those other dudes are technically better players than Pagey. Maybe so. But those LZ songs he cowrote and arranged will haunt me (in a good way) till the moment I expire. None of the others come close to hitting the same place emotionally. That said, I don't question or belittle their technical mastery.

Good old Stumblefingers !

AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: I posted that before he explained it. Doh!

Nope. It's a few posts before yours.

Atavachron wrote: Finnforest wrote: Atavachron wrote: Page is misunderstood, a purposefully ragged player whose soulful approach is misinterpreted as sloppy & simplistic, and a far greater composer than any of his contemporaries such as Beck, Clapton, Hendrix, or Blackmore.   It's a shame.    Yep. Totally agree on that. My whole life "guitar people" have tried to explain why those other dudes are technically better players than Pagey. Maybe so. But those LZ songs he cowrote and arranged will haunt me (in a good way) till the moment I expire. None of the others come close to hitting the same place emotionally. That said, I don't question or belittle their technical mastery. Good old Stumblefingers !

David, did you see the new LZ movie on Netflix? Lots of fun and some great clips and interviews. I only wish it kept going for each album. It only covers the first two. Jimmy has such a great memory for recounting how the songs were constructed.