Pop Elements in Prog is Bad?

Shakespeare wrote: n that case, you are correct (except for some of the jazz bands).

Is s/he though?
I find it hard to fathom you agree with him/her, because where on earth in only the holiest of brilliant or completely incorrect places would you find Mr Bungle in pop

BaldJean wrote: coleio wrote: Okay done. Prog is not pop, look I repeated it. Prog is not pop. If you had bothered to carefully read previous responses (Tony R and then my post congratualting Tony on pointing out there is a big difference between the the two kinds of 'pop'), you would've realised that sales and whatnot, actually have little to do with 'pop' music (of which prog is not). You may be referring to popular ('pop' abbreviation). Yes prog does have more sales than its jazz and classical counterparts, but it isn't the other kind of pop music (the kind the thread originally referred to), which is simple, 4/4, radio-friendly, catchy, dancing and singing music. You follow? I know of the difference between "prog" and "the other kind of pop"; after all I am a pre-eminent poster here. but that does not delude me into thinking that prog is not pop. this kind of snobbery is simply inappropriate

Snobbery? What on earth are you talking about? I'm in no way a snob, but on the other hand I know that prog is definitely not pop.
And being a 'pre-eminent poster', doesn't immediately mean you're correct either, in fact considering you do post so much I would've expected that you could recognise something as simple as, prog is not pop.

Or maybe it's one of these 'E-Ego boosters', that seem to happen when people get on their righteous, high and mighty horse and think they can be a moral sign-post in being eclectic or 'non-snobbish' (the one you seem to find appealing'.

So transparent its unreal.

coleio wrote: BaldJean wrote: coleio wrote: Okay done. Prog is not pop, look I repeated it. Prog is not pop. If you had bothered to carefully read previous responses (Tony R and then my post congratualting Tony on pointing out there is a big difference between the the two kinds of 'pop'), you would've realised that sales and whatnot, actually have little to do with 'pop' music (of which prog is not). You may be referring to popular ('pop' abbreviation). Yes prog does have more sales than its jazz and classical counterparts, but it isn't the other kind of pop music (the kind the thread originally referred to), which is simple, 4/4, radio-friendly, catchy, dancing and singing music. You follow? I know of the difference between "prog" and "the other kind of pop"; after all I am a pre-eminent poster here. but that does not delude me into thinking that prog is not pop. this kind of snobbery is simply inappropriate Snobbery? What on earth are you talking about? I'm in no way a snob, but on the other hand I know that prog is definitely not pop. And being a 'pre-eminent poster', doesn't immediately mean you're correct either, in fact considering you do post so much I would've expected that you could recognise something as simple as, prog is not pop. Or maybe it's one of these 'E-Ego boosters', that seem to happen when people get on their righteous, high and mighty horse and think they can be a moral sign-post in being eclectic or 'non-snobbish' (the one you seem to find appealing'. So transparent its unreal.

first of all: by remarking that I am a pre-eminent poster I did not mean to say that I am always right at all. what I wanted to say is: "yes, prog is pop, so what? I like it; that's  why I am a pre-eminent poster".
second: get over the idea that there is anything "bad" with prog being pop. I am as much a prog lover as you, but I don't delude myself in that regard


Edited by BaldJean - August 15 2007 at 21:58

micky wrote: hahhah...  jesus christ... you all have gone on for 3 pages about this. no wonder ...again... why some visitors to this site run screaming into the night.  Prog is ...is prog is..  it's individual. It's up to listener.   So are the merits of incorporating strong melody and hooks ... ie pop elements. Some like their prog unlistenable... some like strong songwriting and strong melodies.  Get real people hahhahah

Yes prog encompasses some downright cacophony like sections of Pawn Hearts by VdGG

Whereas, you do get the 'pop' music melodies now and again, some of which are good, others not so.
But prog being pop? (in both meanings of the word this day and age).
Get real.

I'm going to have to agree with Jean, Prog is Pop Music and so is Rock and Metal by default as they have a common source. Since Prog is an amorphous genre it's roots always go back to simple Pop music no matter which route you take. Yes there are exceptions that started outside Pop - but they are rare and do not affect the outcome.

coleio wrote: I don't think that pop is generally a bad thing (although a massive amount I've heard is), as some pop music is okay. But prog is prog, infact even calling some sub-genres of prog, 'rock', is stretching it. So therefore, I am and always will stand by my initial reaction. As for finding Mr Bungle or whatever in pop ? No, wouldn't happen unless it's been misplaced. As for 'rock' section (which you did'nt mention the first time around), that might happen but I would still find it peculiar

you'd be surprised; Cologne's biggest record shop Saturn puts Mr. Bungle under "pop". and I totally agree with it, for the reasons given above

I think we can all agree on a few points:

1. Prog is a subcategory of rock music (in most cases). In my opinion, rock is both a subcategory of Popular Music and not in the genre of "pop music," which encompasses the likes of Britney Spears, Michael Jackson, the Spice Girls, etc.

2. Compared to my idea of the aforementioned "pop music," most rock music, and many other subcategories of Popular Music, prog is unpopular.

IMO, there are a few main, separate categories for most/all music:

Jazz
Classical
Blues (possibly under Popular Music)
Popular music (containing "pop music," rock, electronica)
Ethnic music (the basic forms of tribal music throughout cultures)

stonebeard wrote: I think we can all agree on a few points: 1. Prog is a subcategory of rock music (in most cases). In my opinion, rock is both a subcategory of Popular Music and not in the genre of "pop music," which encompasses the likes of Britney Spears, Michael Jackson, the Spice Girls, etc. 2. Compared to my idea of the aforementioned "pop music," most rock music, and many other subcategories of Popular Music, prog is unpopular. IMO, there are a few main, separate categories for most/all music: Jazz Classical Blues (possibly under Popular Music) Popular music (containing "pop music," rock, electronica) Ethnic music (the basic forms of tribal music throughout cultures)

Or if we go on certain logic used in this thread, why don't we just put everything into classical, baroque and renaissance after all that's the root of all music.

pfff

From the the chief categories of music

Jazz
Pop
Classical
World

Which do you think Mr Bungle belongs to?

Case closed.

Bringing the topic totally back, the central question of the thread is completely out of coherence then.....

Since, how can X be good or bad to Y  if  X = Y??