| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
jimidom 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 02 2007
Location: Houston, TX USA
Status: Offline
Points: 570
|
 Posted: December 04 2008 at 17:18 |
 Chelsea wrote:
kibble_alex wrote:
As a songwriter, he's excellent. As a drummer, however, I think he's dire, sorry. |
I have heard many drummers screw up his parts. That super group Dirty Mac drummer screwed up on "Yer Blues" because of the time changes in that song.
|
That would of course be the late great Mitch Mitchell.
|
|
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - HST
|
 |
Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
|
Posted: December 11 2008 at 04:19 |
|
He was ok. Functional. The Beatles didn't really require a genius level jazz fusion percussionist to provide their back beat, did they.
If I understand correctly, the Beatles original drumer (Pete Best?) was sacked because he was getting more attention in the media - and from female fans - than Lennon or McCartney. They replaced him with the less photogenic and less 'flashy' drummer Ringo Starr, so they could get the spot light back on themselves.
|
|
Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 10616
|
Posted: December 11 2008 at 04:52 |
I like the Beatles drums very much. Not flashy but very good sounding, like in "Hey Jude". I suppose that they were also lucky to have an excellent producer, but Ringo deserves some credit as well.
|
|
chopper
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 19958
|
Posted: December 11 2008 at 07:07 |
kibble_alex wrote:
As a songwriter, he's excellent. As a drummer, however, I think he's dire, sorry. |
I hope that opinion's not based on Octopus' Garden. 
|
|
chopper
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 19958
|
Posted: December 11 2008 at 07:16 |
Blacksword wrote:
He was ok. Functional. The Beatles didn't really require a genius level jazz fusion percussionist to provide their back beat, did they.
If I understand correctly, the Beatles original drumer (Pete Best?) was sacked because he was getting more attention in the media - and from female fans - than Lennon or McCartney. They replaced him with the less photogenic and less 'flashy' drummer Ringo Starr, so they could get the spot light back on themselves. |
You're correct Andy, although it is also said that George Martin didn't consider Pete Best to be good enough. Ringo was already known to the Beatles from Hamburg and had a reputation as the best drummer in Liverpool. If you look at any photos taken just after Ringo joined, you will see George Harrison has a black eye kindly donated by an irate Pete Best fan.
|
|
debrewguy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596
|
Posted: December 11 2008 at 18:04 |
|
He once answered the question as to if he thought of himself as a good drummer, and what song(s), if any that the others actually played. As the interviewer was a bit haughty, Ringo answered that there were only four Bealtes, and he was one of them.
They didn't kick him out, they never made much ado about the songs where Paul might have played drums (though the recording archives give us a good idea), and they never stated that any member held back the group.
Or, to quote U2's bass player Adam Clayton "I'm not the best bass player in the world, I'm not even the best bass player in U2; but I am the bass player in U2!"
|
|
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
|
|
Abrawang
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 29 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 112
|
Posted: December 11 2008 at 22:27 |
|
I agree with many of the sentiments here. The Beatles always sounded good and had their drummer been lousy, it would have been evident soon enough. As great as The Beatles were, they never went for the instrumental virtuosity that was featured in bands like Cream, Zepplin, Yes, The Who, Genesis & ELP. Maybe instrumentally they weren't as talented, hence Harrison's plea to Clpaton to save While My Guitar Gently Weeps.
So the suspicion is that Starr wasn't as good as contemporaries or close-to like Baker, Palmer. Moon and Bonham. But The Beatles always sounded tight so he has to be given some credit for that. And their early live performances sound just as good as studio. So I'd say he's a pretty good drummer because you can't really fault him for anything and you have to give him some credit for The Beatles' sound.
I don't see how you can say he's a great drummer because he never tried the more ambitious stuff that were features of Baker, Moon, Palmer and Bonham.
|
|
Casting doubt on all I have to say...
|
|
mrcozdude
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 25 2007
Location: Devon,UK.
Status: Offline
Points: 2078
|
Posted: December 11 2008 at 22:35 |
jimidom wrote:
Chelsea wrote:
kibble_alex wrote:
As a songwriter, he's excellent. As a drummer, however, I think he's dire, sorry. |
I have heard many drummers screw up his parts. That super group Dirty Mac drummer screwed up on "Yer Blues" because of the time changes in that song.
|
That would of course be the late great Mitch Mitchell. |
Mitch is a great drummer,he doesnt mess up or get things right,he just has a good time.
|
|
|
|
mrcozdude
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 25 2007
Location: Devon,UK.
Status: Offline
Points: 2078
|
Posted: December 11 2008 at 22:38 |
|
If were going to name pre seventies drummers,Buddy Rich & Gene Krupa ftw.They could of been great in the beatles.
|
|
|
|
el dingo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2008
Location: Norwich UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7053
|
Posted: December 12 2008 at 02:12 |
mrcozdude wrote:
If were going to name pre seventies drummers,Buddy Rich & Gene Krupa ftw.They could of been great in the beatles. |
And in most other bands, too 
|
|
It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough.
|
|
Chris S
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
|
Posted: December 12 2008 at 04:51 |
HughesJB4 wrote:
Lol, wrong forum.
Ehhh, he's okay I guess.
|
Actually not wrong forum  The Beatles are here. Probably the wealthiest drummer alive too.
|
|
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
|
|
ModernRocker79
Forum Groupie
Joined: November 02 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 62
|
Posted: December 12 2008 at 12:24 |
Chelsea wrote:
Vibrationbaby wrote:
At his best he played at the level of a good teenage garage band drummer. Sometimes not even as good. He would be lost if confronted with anything in say, 11/8 time. |
The Beatles were one of the first rock bands to experiment with mixed meters. Like their use off odd chord progression they also messed with outside convention of time signatures 4/4. Ringo was responsible for this.
"Here Comes the Sun", by The Beatles. The bridge is in 11/8 + 4/4 + 7/8
"Good Morning Good Morning" Time signature
The song, which is played at 117 beats per minute, has an unusual time signature in that 5/4 alternates with 4/4. For transition between 5/4 and 4/4 beat, 3/4 is used.
There are a total of 64 bars, which can be grouped in seven groups with three, unique bar sequences: A, B, C, B, C, B, A, which is symmetrical relative to the middle B part (disregarding the last, fadeout bar).
"Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds," metric modulation asymmetrical patterns
"Happiness is a Warm Gun" contains both Balkan rhythm and Polyrhythm in its four part song. Very progressive and Radiohead "Paranoid Android" is based on this.
“We Can Work it Out" has has changing time signatures. On Revolver there are more than few examples of this.
|
You might as well add the erratic backward fills on the "Word" that foreshadows one of the Beatles traits in their Psychedelic Pop Style. I love the drumming on "Rain" basically inventing a new way to play drums in Pop Music and "She Said She Said". I think he was signature drummer for Power Pop and one of the first rock drummers to experiment in mixed meters a true sign of Progressive Rock.
I find it funny many of the so-called technical bands mind you that Paul McCartney was a great bassist would have trouble playing the Beatles music. I can’t see Led Zeppelin or ELP actually pulling off the vocal harmonies of “Because” or blues bands playing “You Never Give Me Your Money” or pulling of the Beatles melodic progressive style. Really there is more to shredding your instrument.
Edited by ModernRocker79 - December 12 2008 at 12:24
|
|
Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15783
|
Posted: December 12 2008 at 17:02 |
|
I used to think he was nothing special. Then I listened to "A Day in the Life"
|
|
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
|
|
DavetheSlave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 492
|
Posted: December 12 2008 at 17:11 |
|
I never liked Ringo as a drummer - his claim to fame is that he was in a pioneering pop / rock band!!!! Heard mention of Phil Collins as well and - sorry guys - I don't rate him as a drummer. Now Coizy Powell or (again) Ian Paice??? Lazy anyone??? John Henry Bonham!!! Their is no comparrison. So Ringo playyed the drums?? Lets talk about the Shadow's, Little Richard's backing band, Chuck Berry's backing musicians!!!! At severe risk I will state that I don't rate the Beatles other than as then Teen idols. The Stones - there's a different story.
|
|
debrewguy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596
|
Posted: December 12 2008 at 21:38 |
mrcozdude wrote:
If were going to name pre seventies drummers,Buddy Rich & Gene Krupa ftw.They could of been great in the beatles. |
I think it would have been the wrong fit. Rather like having Gabriel in an Extreme metal band.
|
|
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
|
|
Visitor13
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 02 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 4702
|
Posted: December 13 2008 at 03:07 |
|
Yeah, didn't Rich play some rock once and couldn't get the feel right? Too different approaches.
|
|
Chelsea
Forum Groupie
Joined: December 10 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 44
|
Posted: December 14 2008 at 11:45 |
DavetheSlave wrote:
I never liked Ringo as a drummer - his claim to fame is that he was in a pioneering pop / rock band!!!! Heard mention of Phil Collins as well and - sorry guys - I don't rate him as a drummer. Now Coizy Powell or (again) Ian Paice??? Lazy anyone??? John Henry Bonham!!! Their is no comparrison. So Ringo playyed the drums?? Lets talk about the Shadow's, Little Richard's backing band, Chuck Berry's backing musicians!!!! At severe risk I will state that I don't rate the Beatles other than as then Teen idols. The Stones - there's a different story. |
I think the Stones are overrated. They were always miles behind the Beatles even Brian Jones was rumored to have wished to be with the Beatles because he liked what the Beatles were doing musically. The Beatles certainly approached prog music and did with "A Day in the Life". Musicologists complimented the Beatles use of subdominants, descending chromatics and rhythm. Dylan, McGuinn, Richards, Garcia were all influence by the Beatles chord progression. So I this is bunk about the Beatles being more than teen idols. The Stones were basically a derivative of Chuck Berry and Muddy Waters and if it was not the Beatles pushing them I doubt we would have heard "Paint It Black" or "As Tears Go By".
Robert Fripp on hearing the Beatles Sgt Pepper
Robert Fripp- When I was 20, I worked at a hotel in a dance orchestra, playing weddings, bar-mitzvahs, dancing, and cabaret. I drove home and I was also at college at the time. Then I put on the radio (Radio Luxemburg) and I heard this music. It was terrifying. I had no idea what it was. Then it kept going. Then there was this enormous whine note of strings. Then there was this colossal piano chord. I discovered later that I'd come in half-way through Sgt. Pepper, played continuously. My life was never the same again.
|
|
chopper
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 13 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 19958
|
Posted: December 14 2008 at 15:23 |
|
Nice quote Chelsea. Anyone who doubts why The Beatles are on PA, please note.
|
|
peskypesky
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 25 2005
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 359
|
Posted: December 15 2008 at 18:02 |
Ringo was perfect for the Beatles, and since they were the greatest rock band of all-time, Ringo was great. You think those guys would play with someone who wasn't?
Now if the question is "Was Ringo a technical virtuoso, or a fusion drummer, or a complex drummer", well then, obviously, he wasn't.
As someone who can appreciate the perfection of minimalism, I have no problem proclaiming both Ringo and Billy Cobham to be great drummers. Just as I have no problem considering both Steve Howe and Johnny Ramone to be great guitarists.
|
|
el dingo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2008
Location: Norwich UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7053
|
Posted: December 16 2008 at 04:21 |
peskypesky wrote:
Ringo was perfect for the Beatles, and since they were the greatest rock band of all-time, Ringo was great. You think those guys would play with someone who wasn't?
Now if the question is "Was Ringo a technical virtuoso, or a fusion drummer, or a complex drummer", well then, obviously, he wasn't.
As someone who can appreciate the perfection of minimalism, I have no problem proclaiming both Ringo and Billy Cobham to be great drummers. Just as I have no problem considering both Steve Howe and Johnny Ramone to be great guitarists.
|
That last paragraph sums it up for me too. I hope no-one brings up the juxtaposition theory with your particular examples, though. The mind truly boggles at the thought of Howe performing Cretin Hop... or Dear Johnny on Starship Trooper
Edited by el dingo - December 16 2008 at 04:22
|
|
It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough.
|
|
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
Ringo Starr as a drummer
