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Topic ClosedWhat is "prog" about Tool and similar bands?
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Svetonio View Drop Down
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 04:18
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

(...) I'd say Hot Rats was his first true prog album (...)
Thank you.
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Points: 13456 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 04:38
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

No I didn't say that. The first Genesis album was similarly not the one that cemented them as a prog rock group either.
Guldbamsen, I didn't ask you about Genesis Cry
Let's say that a newbie who just went into prog and asks the Admin of Prog Archives Forum, "please just tell me which Zappa's album is his first prog album, because I can see that Zappa is in Prog Archives, in RIO / Avant Prog section?", what will be your answer?
Zappa was there long before I joined the team so I don't know, but I think the reason for him in Avant is the same of Captain Beefheart. If Avant didn't exist we could invent and name a genre specific for them.
Do you see any other subgenre they could fit in?
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Points: 24392 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 05:14
For the record, when I was still an active Collab, we tried to move Zappa to Eclectic, but the suggestion was voted down for a number of reasons I don't remember now.
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Points: 4574 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 06:25
Maybe, Tool is a "modern" progressive band, that can't be understood by dusty progsters who have the old same sounds of mellotron and mini-moog in their head. Big smile
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 06:41
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

No I didn't say that. The first Genesis album was similarly not the one that cemented them as a prog rock group either.
Guldbamsen, I didn't ask you about Genesis Cry
Let's say that a newbie who just went into prog and asks the Admin of Prog Archives Forum, "please just tell me which Zappa's album is his first prog album, because I can see that Zappa is in Prog Archives, in RIO / Avant Prog section?", what will be your answer?
Zappa was there long before I joined the team so I don't know, but I think the reason for him in Avant is the same of Captain Beefheart. If Avant didn't exist we could invent and name a genre specific for them.
Do you see any other subgenre they could fit in?
Imo, it was OK to put Zappa in avant prog section; that's sound much better to my ears than "eclectic prog".
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Points: 10110 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 07:11
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

(...) I'd say Hot Rats was his first true prog album (...)
Thank you.

One thing is certain: Zappa made the/his very first Canterbury-tune in 1967. Man what a total gem it is:



I think the best way for weepingelf to understand why Tool are on PA is to check out their discography backwards. Not necessarily because 10000 Days is their best (most fans would would say Lateralus is) but I think its probably the easiest album to digest if for someone largely unfamiliar with progressive-metal or progrock beyond the classic era. It reminds me quite a bit of 90/00's King Crimson (a period of which I'm no fan of) or is the other way around? Besides most of the time its less metal than Porcupine Tree's Tool-apeing tunes on Deadwing. 
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20532 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 08:27
Originally posted by PhideauxFan PhideauxFan wrote:

Maybe, Tool is a "modern" progressive band, that can't be understood by dusty progsters who have the old same sounds of mellotron and mini-moog in their head. Big smile
I'm 64. Thanks for your support.
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20532 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 08:29
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

That was a good post, but Freak Out! was never a prog album. Sorry Svet. It was an experimental blues rock album with some avantguarde tendencies thrown in for good measure.....but prog? Definitely no. Forward thinking and one of the most innovative releases of 1966? You betcha!
I agree. Sometimes it is best just to state genres instead of artists.
Regardless, it's still the best thing I've read by Svetonio.


Edited by SteveG - January 09 2015 at 08:33
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20532 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 09:21
Btw, what are the ZART and PSIKE teams?
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Nogbad_The_Bad View Drop Down
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Points: 20343 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 09:29
ZART = Zeuhl, Avant, RIO Team
PSIKE = Psych, Space, Indo-Raga, Krautrock, Electronic.
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https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20532 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 09:31
Thanks Ian, It was R in RIO and I in Indo Raga that threw me! LOL
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Points: 20343 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 09:32
I personally think we should be TZAR or RATZ as I prefer the acronyms LOL

Edited by Nogbad_The_Bad - January 09 2015 at 09:32
Ian

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https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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Guldbamsen View Drop Down
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Points: 23098 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 09:38
I like the TZAR one, but that may confuse people into thinking it's the Russian team.
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20532 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 09:43
^Um, Wacko is there a Russian team?
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Metalmarsh89 View Drop Down
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Points: 2673 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 09:49
LOL

Though having Hot Rats in the RATZ sub-genre is appropriate.
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Guldbamsen View Drop Down
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Points: 23098 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 09:52
Yes it consists of bearded bear hunters that in between shots of vodka evaluate music from the tundras of Siberia.
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

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octopus-4 View Drop Down
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Points: 13456 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 09:53
TRAZ for late King Crimson and TARZ(an) for Central African bands?
Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
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timothy leary View Drop Down
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 09:54
and drink reindeer piss
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20532 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 09:54
^Sounds more like Norwegian Doom metal bands. LOL

Edited by SteveG - January 09 2015 at 09:56
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Points: 23098 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 10:01
Alright, I think this thread has run it's course😊
We got the shred, as well as the "adult" version the shed, for chit chatting. I'll wait a bit seeing as the OP may want a final word in, or if any of you guys want to address the topic at hand - no not the Russian team but the prog virtues of Tool.
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

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