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JD View Drop Down
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Points: 18438 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2022 at 11:53
Allow me to attempt to bring a smidgen of levity to an otherwise dire and concerning thread.
Assuming at least some of the women affected will head north of the border for the care and support they desire...
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Originally posted by Norbert Norbert wrote:

I don't need any support of fans of baby butchering, many thanks.:-)

I am not a racist, and vehemently oppose any form of racism.
But these Neo-Maoists just bring up racism always when somebody dares to disagree with their views.
Garbage is not my post, but the other posts of this topic.

It is very  clear that the people of this communist cesspool are not even worth a discussion.

Communists?   Really?  Is that the best you've got?  What is it, 1959? 

Very few liberals in America are Communists and in fact most of us think communism is not much better than fascism, which leads me to my next point which is that you seem to have a poor and very dated sense of politics.  There are connections & collusions between opposing politics, and there are rifts & fissures between related politics--  some believe that socialism & authoritarianism marry well and would make an ideal society.

Things aren't always as they seem.
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Points: 64700 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 25 2022 at 16:47
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Allow me to attempt to bring a smidgen of levity to an otherwise dire and concerning thread.
Assuming at least some of the women affected will head north of the border for the care and support they desire...


Maybe if they live in the Dakotas or Montana.
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I wonder how many people have thought through how much government intrusion will be needed to make abortion illegal within a state.
If said state makes abortion illegal, as well as leaving the state to get an abortion, then it seems that when a woman becomes pregnant, that woman will have to register with the state, after which they will receive a visit from a social worker twice a month to make sure everything is going well.
Miscarriages are going to become frequent court cases as women with miscarriages fight to stay out of jail.

Edited by Easy Money - June 25 2022 at 17:27
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Can anyone imagine a women who sincerely wanted a baby, carries it for an extended term, miscarried and then is subjected to some type of Spanish Inquisition by some kind of state authority? I cannot even fathom that poor women's pain and anger.

Edited by SteveG - June 25 2022 at 21:21
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^ And what of Clarence Thomas suggesting same-sex marriage and birth control should be reconsidered.  Freakin' same-sex marriage and birth control.   Who does this guy think he is, St. Paul?   Do he and his wife not do the nasty?  Are they so repressed old Tom has to pleasure himself out in the garden so they don't see each other naked?   Please, Thomas, tell us we have it wrong, that you were misinterpreted, that you didn't mean contraception should be banned nationally ... oh wait, there's that written published statement.   Great.
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Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^ And what of Clarence Thomas suggesting same-sex marriage and birth control should be reconsidered.  Freakin' same-sex marriage and birth control.   Who does this guy think he is, St. Paul?   Do he and his wife not do the nasty?  Are they so repressed old Tom has to pleasure himself out in the garden so they don't see each other naked?   Please, Thomas, tell us we have it wrong, that you were misinterpreted, that you didn't mean contraception should be banned nationally ... oh wait, there's that written published statement.   Great.


Despite being black, CT is the oldest and worst-repressive &  most-regressive conservatives (I explained the SC composition in the +/- recent Abortion thread). Thankfully, he's by far the oldest one in that SC, but unfortunately, unless willingly stepping down, they're nominated until death (like popes & ayatollahs).
He's out even as to make illegal homo sexual relation.
While I wouldn't really fight for homo marriages rights, I would for their right to have relations. 


.


Edited by Sean Trane - June 26 2022 at 02:36
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
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as well as a thinker,
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Why did he pass over recinding interracial marriage? Oh, wait..
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Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Pretty sure the supreme court stepped outside its role and made an illégal decision. OuchDead

The supreme court's role is to see that the constitution and laws are observed and followed and that's about it.
...

Hi,

I kinda wonder if the whole thing is about keeping the Constitution on its "generic" and "general" terms, and make sure that the States themselves decide the individualities they want ... and not bother the Constitution. You can already hear some of this in the words of one Supreme Court Justice already asking for various individualities taken out of the Constitution. 

If something like this were observed, right off the bat, the issue of "abortion" would have been handled by each state in their own manner, instead of it adding up to the great mess that we ended up with and people's emotions totally and completely out of control.

It's really sad ... because it is going to hurt American Politics for a long time to come, because it is no longer about the politics and ideas ... but about someone's religious belief. This should have been removed from the Constitution right off the bat! Specially when it was disguised as some sort of medical this or that!
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

I kinda wonder if the whole thing is about keeping the Constitution on its "generic" and "general" terms, and make sure that the States themselves decide the individualities they want ... and not bother the Constitution. You can already hear some of this in the words of one Supreme Court Justice already asking for various individualities taken out of the Constitution.

Yeah, States Rights. That's how the U.S. got slavery and Jim Crow laws for 150 years. That's how individual states prohibited biracial marriage. That's how individual states eliminate unions, LGBTQ rights and force a single religion's mythical codes on people who want nothing to do with that particular religion. That's how we have this insane crazy quilt of stupidly conflicting gun laws across the U.S.

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

If something like this were observed, right off the bat, the issue of "abortion" would have been handled by each state in their own manner, instead of it adding up to the great mess that we ended up with and people's emotions totally and completely out of control.

It's really sad ... because it is going to hurt American Politics for a long time to come, because it is no longer about the politics and ideas ... but about someone's religious belief. This should have been removed from the Constitution right off the bat! Specially when it was disguised as some sort of medical this or that!

One would think that you'd know more about the Constitution having lived in this country for more than half a century. Evidently, rabbiting on about something you know nothing about is your modus operandi across a broad spectrum of topics. The precedent set in Roe v Wade was part of the broader rights entailed in the 14th amendment:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

"Life and liberty." The original Supreme Court decision regarding Roe v. Wade is that a woman should have the freedom to get an abortion and was inclusive of the general rights implied in the 14th Amendment, and would include but not be limited to when she was raped, when the birth would threaten her life if it went full term, and when the pregnancy is coerced or forced. 

I would suggest that the latter, when pregnancy is coerced or forced, is the most dangerous and least discussed of reasons to get an abortion. Without Roe v. Wade as a precedent, women can now be forced to breed by abusive husbands or boyfriends who seek total control over them. We're heading towards a 3rd World Muslim-style state where males can exert power over women and it will be the woman who faces legal consequences if she wants to escape. Pricking holes in condoms. Dropping Roofies in an unsuspecting woman's drink. Getting a woman pregnant when she wants to leave a relationship. This happens every day. And you're going to prosecute a woman who seeks an abortion? Bullsh*t.
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Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^ And what of Clarence Thomas suggesting same-sex marriage and birth control should be reconsidered.  Freakin' same-sex marriage and birth control.   Who does this guy think he is, St. Paul?   Do he and his wife not do the nasty?  Are they so repressed old Tom has to pleasure himself out in the garden so they don't see each other naked?   Please, Thomas, tell us we have it wrong, that you were misinterpreted, that you didn't mean contraception should be banned nationally ... oh wait, there's that written published statement.   Great.
While I wouldn't really fight for homo marriages rights, I would for their right to have relations. 

I think the important question, Hugues, is does one support a gay couple being able to enjoy the same marriage rights as those of straight people.   In some ways that's more significant than being willing to fight for it.
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Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

^ And what of Clarence Thomas suggesting same-sex marriage and birth control should be reconsidered.  Freakin' same-sex marriage and birth control.   Who does this guy think he is, St. Paul?   Do he and his wife not do the nasty?  Are they so repressed old Tom has to pleasure himself out in the garden so they don't see each other naked?   Please, Thomas, tell us we have it wrong, that you were misinterpreted, that you didn't mean contraception should be banned nationally ... oh wait, there's that written published statement.   Great.
While I wouldn't really fight for homo marriages rights, I would for their right to have relations. 

I think the important question, Hugues, is does one support a gay couple being able to enjoy the same marriage rights as those of straight people.   In some ways that's more significant than being willing to fight for it.

This is no longer support for what gay couples want but ensuring a continuance of what they already have. A very different circumstance from previous gay rights issues.

Edited by SteveG - June 26 2022 at 14:27
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^ True, I was speaking philosophically.   But yeah, let's protect what's left.
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Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Without Roe v. Wade as a precedent, women can now be forced to breed by abusive husbands or boyfriends who seek total control over them. We're heading towards a 3rd World Muslim-style state where males can exert power over women and it will be the woman who faces legal consequences if she wants to escape.
 
 
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Human life begins at conception. This is a scientific and biological fact. It is not merely a religious belief. An atheist can (and should) be against abortion.
The unborn is a separate life from the mother. It is not her body unless you want to make the argument that a pregnant woman has two heads four arms and four legs (and if the baby is male...!!!). Saying "don't have an abortion if you don't like it" is like the slaveholder saying "don't own a slave if you don't want one". It completely misses the point that a human life is being mistreated in each case.
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Originally posted by The Black Moor The Black Moor wrote:

Human life begins at conception. This is a scientific and biological fact. It is not merely a religious belief. An atheist can (and should) be against abortion.
The unborn is a separate life from the mother. It is not her body unless you want to make the argument that a pregnant woman has two heads four arms and four legs (and if the baby is male...!!!). Saying "don't have an abortion if you don't like it" is like the slaveholder saying "don't own a slave if you don't want one". It completely misses the point that a human life is being mistreated in each case.
I understand your point of view. Unfortunately, before Roe v. Wade, women who didn't share you view and wanted abortions had to go through a black market of medical treatment. It's this return to the dark ages that needs to be considered. Your views will not prevent women who want an abortion from getting one. And it will happen with or without government sanctions. The latter with risky results.

Edited by SteveG - June 26 2022 at 15:43
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Originally posted by The Black Moor The Black Moor wrote:

Human life begins at conception. This is a scientific and biological fact. It is not merely a religious belief.
Well, your first statement is very much disputed within the scientific and biologist communities. Furthermore, you seem to think that a "fact" is something objective, existing outside of human interference or belief systems. It is all the contrary to that: facts, including scientific facts, are human fabrications, representations, and thus interpretations. And in this discussion the "facts" are very much ideologically, if not religiously, charged, so not "objective" at all.
Quote An atheist can (and should) be against abortion.

Oh yes, he can, but why "should" he be? I don't see the logic behind that.

Quote The unborn is a separate life from the mother.

If this was the case, there wouldn't be a Roe vs. Wade case. If the unborn would be a separate life from the mother, it would have its autonomy regarding its mother, which is not the case, because it couldn't survive without its mother until its birth. That's what it's all about. And with your rubbish arguments that follow and that I didn't quote you can continue to stick your head in the sand, but it doesn't make a valid statement about "mistreatment of lives", because it just seems you privilege the unborn over the mother's life...Why?



Edited by suitkees - June 26 2022 at 15:55

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Originally posted by The Black Moor The Black Moor wrote:

Human life begins at conception. This is a scientific and biological fact. It is not merely a religious belief. An atheist can (and should) be against abortion.
The unborn is a separate life from the mother. It is not her body unless you want to make the argument that a pregnant woman has two heads four arms and four legs (and if the baby is male...!!!). Saying "don't have an abortion if you don't like it" is like the slaveholder saying "don't own a slave if you don't want one". It completely misses the point that a human life is being mistreated in each case.

How humorous you decided to log into a progressive rock site and your first post is a screed about zygotes beings full-fledged humans with inalienable rights. I understand in your rabid beliefs that women are merely receptacles for potential humans, basically sp*rm-buckets, and that guns now have more rights than women in the U.S. But if it were just about babies, Southern states who are dead set on arresting women for being pregnant against their will would be doing all they can to drop the Black maternal mortality rate.

"If it was about babies, we'd have excellent and free maternal care. You wouldn't be charged a cent to give birth, no matter how complicated your delivery was. If it was about babies, we'd have months and months of parental leave, for everyone...

If it was about babies, we’d have free lactation consultants, free diapers, free formula. If it was about babies, we’d have free and excellent childcare from newborns on. If it was about babies, we’d have universal preschool and pre-k and guaranteed after school placements...

If it was about babies, IVF and adoption wouldn’t just be for folks with thousands and thousands of dollars to spend on expanding their families...

If it was about babies, we wouldn’t be having a f*cking formula shortage." -- Leila Cohan

But it's not just about babies, is it? It's about children being slaughtered in schools with alarming frequency. It's about a two-tiered education system where some folks do not get the proper knowledge to compete for better jobs because they are in the wrong tax bracket and zip code. It is about power and control over women. It is about punishing women for daring to be equal. 

You like scientific facts? There are already far too many humans on this planet, and they are destroying it. There are far too many billions starving, poverty-ridden and prone to contagions. If anything, there should be a concerted effort for universal contraception, universal sex education and reducing the population (mostly for the males who can't keep their d*cks in their pants). Or else these babies you are forcing out will all be dead in horrific fashion when the world runs out of resources. 
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Originally posted by The Black Moor The Black Moor wrote:

An atheist can (and should) be against abortion.
 
Are you an atheist?
 
No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
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Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Originally posted by The Black Moor The Black Moor wrote:

An atheist can (and should) be against abortion.

 
Are you an atheist?
 

That's a good one.
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