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frippism 
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 27 2010
Location: Tel Aviv
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Points: 4160
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 Posted: February 15 2012 at 09:20 |
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Jethro Tull is what Ian Anderson calls Jethro Tull, so yeah if he calls "Ian Anderson's Jethro Tull"- then fine. Jethro is Ian Anderson.
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There be dragons
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29625
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Posted: February 15 2012 at 10:40 |
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Fweeeee!!!
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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rushaholic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 13 2005
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1138
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Posted: February 15 2012 at 11:52 |
 TealFoxes wrote:
I don't want to die from a blood clot in my brain, so I'd like to sum this up simple and calmly...
3. Steven Wilson brown nosed his way to fame throughout his entire music career. |
Seriously?? Nothing to do with talent? His production abilities? I simply and calmly disagree. I think he is very talented at putting together an album. I also think he has worked hard to get where he is. Others (Jethro Tull, King Crimson, Anathema, Opeth, etc.) all seem to think he has talent - especially when it comes to the 5.1 mixes.
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TealFoxes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 25 2008
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 152
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Posted: February 15 2012 at 18:51 |
Being a brown noser has little to do with talent or production abilities. It has more to do with remixing legendary compositions that he would have no clue how to write himself.
I tried to get into his music & PT because I think he has good musical taste for a musician of this generation, and sure he has an ear for atmosphere and sound, but he's got so many flaws involving juvenile lyrics, commercialized marketing of his song format, and egotistical collaborations that hardly deliver anything substantial.
Like most musicians of his time, he manages to blend in a genre of original musicians without being original himself.
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The Bearded Bard
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Joined: January 24 2012
Location: Behind the Sun
Status: Offline
Points: 12859
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Posted: February 19 2012 at 15:49 |
Ludjak wrote:
I do kind of admire the risk Ian Anderson is taking here, out of all things he could have done this is the least safe. With this "TaaB2" he could either regain or completely lose his credibility. |
Yes, he's definitely putting his credibility on the line here. I was very exited when i first heard of this, but now I'm rather sceptical. It's a big chance to take to put the name THAAB on something, especially if it's not significantly better than what has come out of that neck of the woods for the last 30-odd years. A mediocre TAAB2 wil sink IA as an artist to reckon with I'm afraid. I hope he'll swim though.
Edited by The Bearded Bard - February 19 2012 at 16:01
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 26278
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Posted: February 20 2012 at 02:04 |
Very obviously a commercial decision. I've pre-ordered it yet I only own a couple of Tull albums + DVD.
there is a song about Wootton Bassett so that's quite interesting at least.
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dennismoore
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: April 19 2011
Location: America
Status: Offline
Points: 877
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Posted: February 20 2012 at 09:51 |
SirJethro wrote:
Steven Wilson about the Album:
.. I cannot underestimate how these guys were brainwashed. Robert Fripp and Ian Anderson feel the same. They were brainwashed by the media into thinking everything they did in the ‘70s was worthless junk. It’s almost like abused child syndrome. It took a great amount of reassurance for them to begin to believe that people love that stuff and that it’s the work that their reputation will ultimately rest on.
I experienced that with Robert when we worked on the remix of King Crimson’s Lizard. He said “Why do you want to do this Steven? No-one likes the record. Everyone hates it, including me.” I said “I’m going to change people’s minds.” I’m so proud to say that happened. One of the greatest moments of my life is when that album was reissued and received astonishing reviews. David Fricke in Rolling Stone said “Lizard is revealed to be the greatest King Crimson album of all.” Mojo gave it five out of five stars. Robert was astonished. And I was vindicated because I really believed all those records that had been ignored and sidelined for years, mainly by the media, but also by fans, were really coming of age. In a sense, they were so far ahead of their time, and now is their time. They sound extraordinary. |
Hi SirJethro, 
Thanks for this wonderful article. I find it very illuminating, and I do think Steven Wilson is dead on with his opinions.
Only prog has been "trashed" by the media. Punk, hair band-metal, bubble-gum pop, et. al. have come and go. And the media just left them alone while other music forms became "popular". Only prog was condemned and trashed so, this could be debated endlessly, I have no idea why frankly. Maybe its part of the saying that no true artist is appreciated in his time?
Without a doubt classic YES - ELP - Genesis - Tull, etc..will live forever. The Sex Pistols - Bay City Rollers - Bare Naked Ladies, I doubt that. Hey "Flock Of Seagulls & Adam Ant! Wassup baby??? (yeah people.... what you are hearing is the sound of silence.....)
@TealFoxes: : Do you have a 5.1 setup or have you heard Steven's 5.1 mixes on a 5.1 system???
Edited by dennismoore - February 20 2012 at 09:53
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"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire
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TealFoxes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 25 2008
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 152
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Posted: February 20 2012 at 16:55 |
dennismoore wrote:
@TealFoxes: : Do you have a 5.1 setup or have you heard Steven's 5.1 mixes on a 5.1 system???
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No I don't have a 5.1 setup but I have heard Steven's 5.1 mixes from a friend who has one and loves Steven Wilson.
Personally, something like this doesn't necessarily move me. I think it's time away from actual songwriting and exploring one's technique, which also ties into more brown nosing. I just don't see the charm in any of this. The artists I consider the most progressive and attractive are the ones with a sense of unity and genuine authentic grace. All that's been produced from what I've heard lately is narrow-minded apathy regardless of it's complexity directed towards either violent heavy metal aggression or by-the-numbers computer work. This might be the result of standards continuously falling fast and falling hard.
Though to be fair dennis, I admire Steven Wilson's effort for his interest and pursuing it. Sometimes my personal issues interfere with my perspective towards art.
Edited by TealFoxes - February 20 2012 at 17:57
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DisgruntledPorcupine
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 16 2010
Location: Thunder Bay CAN
Status: Offline
Points: 4395
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Posted: February 21 2012 at 12:23 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The chances seem slim that this will actually turn out good. |
My initial thought, but I have some confidence.
Edited by DisgruntledPorcupine - February 21 2012 at 12:28
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DisgruntledPorcupine
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 16 2010
Location: Thunder Bay CAN
Status: Offline
Points: 4395
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Posted: February 21 2012 at 12:29 |
TealFoxes wrote:
3. Steven Wilson brown nosed his way to fame throughout his entire music career. |
What the hell are you talking about? Just because it's not your tastes doesn't mean he brown nosed his way to fame. 
Edited by DisgruntledPorcupine - February 21 2012 at 12:31
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TealFoxes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 25 2008
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 152
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Posted: February 21 2012 at 12:37 |
His painfully obvious and shameless brown nosing has nothing to do with the audience's taste.
Take it easy, disgruntled porcupine... sigh
Edited by TealFoxes - February 21 2012 at 12:44
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dennismoore
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: April 19 2011
Location: America
Status: Offline
Points: 877
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Posted: February 21 2012 at 13:19 |
TealFoxes wrote:
dennismoore wrote:
@TealFoxes: : Do you have a 5.1 setup or have you heard Steven's 5.1 mixes on a 5.1 system???
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No I don't have a 5.1 setup but I have heard Steven's 5.1 mixes from a friend who has one and loves Steven Wilson.
Personally, something like this doesn't necessarily move me. I think it's time away from actual songwriting and exploring one's technique,
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Hey Dude, 
You lost me. What doesn't move you? 5.1? Lemme know. I wanna explore this more as I thouight you said some pretty heady stuff at the end of your paragraph.
DM
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"Yeah, people are unhappy about that - but you know what, it's still Yes." - Chris Squire
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TealFoxes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 25 2008
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 152
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Posted: February 21 2012 at 14:50 |
Yep, I was referring to 5.1's; because it seems overtly textured with making the sound channels sound farther apart from each other than they need to be. This also seems pretty snobbish to people who can't afford a 5.1. Don't natural headphones make the listening experience more whole, not to mention reasonably affordable? I mean It's fine if you want them, but I think this is a way guys like Steven Wilson overblow sound equipment to the point where they make money without having to provide substantial material.
To sum this up, I really don't like the direction technology (and obviously music) is taking in this generation. I'm certainly not feeling any enchantment towards musicians who direct their energy towards engineering for a rich wealthier audience exclusively...
Edited by TealFoxes - February 21 2012 at 14:52
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17514
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Posted: February 21 2012 at 17:31 |
^ Mehhh.....I don't consider it a play on the "rich wealthier audience...". Its more a play on the equipment most people have in their homes now that is geared towards home theater (DVD, HD, Surround Sound, 5.1, Flat Screen monitors...)
I mean you can get 5.1 DVD setup from Sony for $400 or even less from like Sharp...or even less from Walmart. And also high end 5.1 for upwards of $3K+
In general I agree though, its music and it should be heard thru a well designed 2 channel system.......I am a huge fan of SW's mixing/remastering efforts, I think he does a great job.
But to say he only does it for the rich and wealthy........he doesn't. I mean you can listen to a DVD on a lowbudget $99 DVD player.....or a high end $1000 player.....Its your choice.
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TheGazzardian
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 11 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8542
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Posted: February 21 2012 at 17:56 |
Catcher10 wrote:
^ Mehhh.....I don't consider it a play on the "rich wealthier audience...". Its more a play on the equipment most people have in their homes now that is geared towards home theater (DVD, HD, Surround Sound, 5.1, Flat Screen monitors...)
I mean you can get 5.1 DVD setup from Sony for $400 or even less from like Sharp...or even less from Walmart. And also high end 5.1 for upwards of $3K+
In general I agree though, its music and it should be heard thru a well designed 2 channel system.......I am a huge fan of SW's mixing/remastering efforts, I think he does a great job.
But to say he only does it for the rich and wealthy........he doesn't. I mean you can listen to a DVD on a lowbudget $99 DVD player.....or a high end $1000 player.....Its your choice. |
DVD players have gone down in price since you last shopped, I think, you can now get them for as little as $30. (I did, and it actually worked fine as a CD player except it made a clicking noise. So I returned it and have been without a working CD player for almost 3 months now)
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TealFoxes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 25 2008
Location: Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 152
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Posted: February 21 2012 at 19:37 |
Catcher10 wrote:
^ Mehhh.....I don't consider it a play on the "rich wealthier audience...". Its more a play on the equipment most people have in their homes now that is geared towards home theater (DVD, HD, Surround Sound, 5.1, Flat Screen monitors...)
I mean you can get 5.1 DVD setup from Sony for $400 or even less from like Sharp...or even less from Walmart. And also high end 5.1 for upwards of $3K+
In general I agree though, its music and it should be heard thru a well designed 2 channel system.......I am a huge fan of SW's mixing/remastering efforts, I think he does a great job.
But to say he only does it for the rich and wealthy........he doesn't. I mean you can listen to a DVD on a lowbudget $99 DVD player.....or a high end $1000 player.....Its your choice. |
Quality is the measure that remixing is based on, though. So the higher quality meant for his projects, the higher a profit he can receive in doing so. I'm afraid this might be encouraging other musicians to go down the same road, stray away from inventive ambition once they've established themselves and make money off trivial efforts (trivial at least compared to being a musical composer).
I honestly believe Steven Wilson does his efforts because he has an interest to do so, but from what I've heard from material he's written for PT as well as his solo efforts, he milks his strength in atmosphere as if it's becoming a marketing gimmick. I think it's clear what his intentions are and I certainly don't support them.
Also, I think it's ironic that the music fans I know who are the most open-minded, progressive and adventurous spirits I've ever met are the one's who don't have the majority of these equipments because they can only make ends meat... but that's only from my experience.
Edited by TealFoxes - February 21 2012 at 19:46
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DisgruntledPorcupine
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 16 2010
Location: Thunder Bay CAN
Status: Offline
Points: 4395
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Posted: February 21 2012 at 20:37 |
TealFoxes wrote:
His painfully obvious and shameless brown nosing has nothing to do with the audience's taste.
Take it easy, disgruntled porcupine... sigh |
I don't get your point. And never. I got a name to live up to, dammit! 
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Ludjak
Forum Groupie
Joined: August 31 2008
Location: Croatia
Status: Offline
Points: 73
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Posted: February 22 2012 at 04:53 |
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I'm actually looking forward to hear the remixed versions of Thick as a Brick or A Passion Play (the latter hopefully with some of the instrumental tracks removed, thank you Mr. Anderson for willing to do so) more than I was to Aqualung, which, in my opinion, didn't really need one (and, thankfully, they've chosen not to meddle with my favourite Tull album, Benefit). Both ...Brick and ... Play are thoughtfully composed works and I think they could benefit from some, as Ian Anderson put it in a recent interview, "sonic clarity" (although it's a fine line between sonic clarity and making a record sound inhomogeneous). I'm not familiar with most of Steven Wilson's production work, but what I've heard sounds quite competent. We'll see.
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clarke2001
Special Collaborator
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Joined: June 14 2006
Location: Croatia
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
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Posted: February 22 2012 at 06:09 |
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I don't care much about crystal-clear sound production, but I guess the production will be on par with Roots To Branches and Dot Com. And frankly, not even the musicality is my biggest concern here: I'm curious to know will Anderson be able to do a coherent story about Gerald Bostock today (perhaps with his sharp cynicism and poetic observations) rather than a disjointed patchwork leaning on his past glory.
I would like to hear Barre's guitar and Evan's Hammond, but that's not going to happen. However, I'm sure Ian will surround himself with competent musicians. If Andrew Giddins will play keyboards and have some share in arrangements the result might get interesting.
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Slartibartfast
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Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29625
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Posted: February 22 2012 at 06:55 |
Ludjak wrote:
I'm actually looking forward to hear the remixed versions of Thick as a Brick or A Passion Play (the latter hopefully with some of the instrumental tracks removed, thank you Mr. Anderson for willing to do so) . |
I'm really not too keen on that type of revisionism, but being forewarned means I don't have to bother with those versions.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Jethro Tull to release "Thick as a brick 2"
