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Topic ClosedFoxtrot or Selling England?
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Poll Question: Which is better?
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38 [46.34%]
44 [53.66%]
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richardh View Drop Down
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Points: 26471 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2014 at 01:42
Originally posted by Genital Giant Genital Giant wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Genital Giant Genital Giant wrote:

Such a tough choice between these two, the two best Genesis albums imo. 
Well, I look at this way, Foxtrot has 30 and 1/2 minutes of absolutely essential material with Supper's Ready and Watcher of the Skies.
Selling England has 24 minutes of absolutely essential material with Cinema Show, Firth of Fifth, and I Know What I Like.

So Foxtrot wins by just a little.

If you take out I Know What I LikeThumbs Down and add Dancing With The Moonlit KnightThumbs Up then what would be the score I wonder?

 I Know What I Like IS an essential Genesis track, that one has been played by the band live probably more than any other from the Gabriel era. It's a great song with a great chorus. Dancing With The Moonlit Knight is a wonderful song but it was never played again live (other than the opening vocal bit) after the Selling England tour. That clearly makes it a non-essential Genesis tune to me. 

 "Essential" songs, to me, are ones that the band played on multiple tours and that stood the test of time. Songs that just got played on one tour are not as significant.

I don't agree. I know what I like was just a bit of a singalong and so suited the band playing live. It does have a nice groove but it will never be 'essential' in my view.

If you follow this argument then ELP - Trilogy is 'non essential' yet many consider it to be one of their best tracks.
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Points: 104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2014 at 23:11
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Genital Giant Genital Giant wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Genital Giant Genital Giant wrote:

Such a tough choice between these two, the two best Genesis albums imo. 
Well, I look at this way, Foxtrot has 30 and 1/2 minutes of absolutely essential material with Supper's Ready and Watcher of the Skies.
Selling England has 24 minutes of absolutely essential material with Cinema Show, Firth of Fifth, and I Know What I Like.

So Foxtrot wins by just a little.

If you take out I Know What I LikeThumbs Down and add Dancing With The Moonlit KnightThumbs Up then what would be the score I wonder?

 I Know What I Like IS an essential Genesis track, that one has been played by the band live probably more than any other from the Gabriel era. It's a great song with a great chorus. Dancing With The Moonlit Knight is a wonderful song but it was never played again live (other than the opening vocal bit) after the Selling England tour. That clearly makes it a non-essential Genesis tune to me. 

 "Essential" songs, to me, are ones that the band played on multiple tours and that stood the test of time. Songs that just got played on one tour are not as significant.

I don't agree. I know what I like was just a bit of a singalong and so suited the band playing live. It does have a nice groove but it will never be 'essential' in my view.

If you follow this argument then ELP - Trilogy is 'non essential' yet many consider it to be one of their best tracks.

 Incorrect, Trilogy has been played on more than one tour. 

 Also..... ELP...... please. Ermm
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richardh View Drop Down
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Points: 26471 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2014 at 01:51
Originally posted by Genital Giant Genital Giant wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Genital Giant Genital Giant wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Genital Giant Genital Giant wrote:

Such a tough choice between these two, the two best Genesis albums imo. 
Well, I look at this way, Foxtrot has 30 and 1/2 minutes of absolutely essential material with Supper's Ready and Watcher of the Skies.
Selling England has 24 minutes of absolutely essential material with Cinema Show, Firth of Fifth, and I Know What I Like.

So Foxtrot wins by just a little.

If you take out I Know What I LikeThumbs Down and add Dancing With The Moonlit KnightThumbs Up then what would be the score I wonder?

 I Know What I Like IS an essential Genesis track, that one has been played by the band live probably more than any other from the Gabriel era. It's a great song with a great chorus. Dancing With The Moonlit Knight is a wonderful song but it was never played again live (other than the opening vocal bit) after the Selling England tour. That clearly makes it a non-essential Genesis tune to me. 

 "Essential" songs, to me, are ones that the band played on multiple tours and that stood the test of time. Songs that just got played on one tour are not as significant.

I don't agree. I know what I like was just a bit of a singalong and so suited the band playing live. It does have a nice groove but it will never be 'essential' in my view.

If you follow this argument then ELP - Trilogy is 'non essential' yet many consider it to be one of their best tracks.

 Incorrect, Trilogy has been played on more than one tour. 

 Also..... ELP...... please. Ermm

Trying to understand your line of 'reasoning' but struggling. The choice of tracks that bands play live as very little to do with them being essential or not.

ELP only played Trilogy live a small handfull of times (maybe 2 or 3 at most). They dropped it for technical reasons and in fact most of the Trilogy album was only played on the tour that followed its release and then dropped. Hoedown, From The Beginning and The Sheriff were the only tracks that survived the cull. They were easy to play live and a lot of fun which brings me back to Genesis and why they played I Know What I Like. 

Putting that aside I think your ranking of albums on how much essential material is on them is perfectly reasonable. The great tracks are what matters. If I get 30 minutes or thereabouts of essential music on an album then that is good enough. Even over 50% is good enough imo.





Edited by richardh - February 26 2014 at 01:54
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Points: 104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2014 at 04:02
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

 
Trying to understand your line of 'reasoning' but struggling. The choice of tracks that bands play live as very little to do with them being essential or not.

ELP only played Trilogy live a small handfull of times (maybe 2 or 3 at most). They dropped it for technical reasons and in fact most of the Trilogy album was only played on the tour that followed its release and then dropped. Hoedown, From The Beginning and The Sheriff were the only tracks that survived the cull. They were easy to play live and a lot of fun which brings me back to Genesis and why they played I Know What I Like. 

 Well, look at it this way. I think if a band plays a particular song for several (or many) tours over years (or decades) that suggests a few things to me:
1. The band thinks it is one of their better tunes, and thus wants to play it
2. The band knows the song is popular with the fans, and feels compelled to play it

 I think this is true with I Know What I Like (especially reason #2). I think what the band thinks are their better tunes is just as important as what fans think are the better tunes and this is reflected in how often a band plays a particular tune live over the years. Just because I Know What I Like is a simple song does not mean that it should be discredited or tossed out when thinking of essential Genesis material. The Carpet Crawlers and Afterglow are relatively simple songs and those are some of the best tunes the band ever wrote. "Simple" or "Easy" should not prevent a song from being considered a classic of the band. That's just a silly sort of Prog bias that only complicated stuff is good. Not so.
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